To "Safety" or not?

[David S.]

@Dagga Boy.

I keep my shotgun in condition 1 while it’s in my hand or slung. Condition 3 while it’s in the safe or transport mode.

The 870 Vang dome safety vastly improves my ability to deactivate the safety. With it, I’m willing to operate the safety with the same philosophy as a carbine or handgun. Sights on target, safety off. Sights off target, safety on. (My context is personal defense, not hunting or games.). With a less ergonomic safety, like the factory button, I’d be more inclined to deactivate the safety earlier, including safety off while in low ready.

[Unobtanium]

How come the concern about the time to reengage the safety? Typically you will look around, depress the muzzle, engage the safety, add more shot shells, and then let it hang on the sling.

Because transitioning from target to target that's gonna slow me wayyyy down. I was trained that when you're shooting and moving, safety on with a carbine...even if "moving" means taking 3 steps to the right to engage another target, simulating moving down a long hall with rooms on the side. Kyle Lamb was very specific about ENGAGE THE SAFETY on that drill, using a carbine. Engaging the safety, I estimate, would double the time on that drill. That said, if that's the way to do it...that is the way I will do it.

[HCM]

Because transitioning from target to target that's gonna slow me wayyyy down. I was trained that when you're shooting and moving, safety on with a carbine...even if "moving" means taking 3 steps to the right to engage another target, simulating moving down a long hall with rooms on the side. Kyle Lamb was very specific about ENGAGE THE SAFETY on that drill, using a carbine. Engaging the safety, I estimate, would double the time on that drill. That said, if that's the way to do it...that is the way I will do it.

Our work 870's have the speed feed pistol grip stocks. One benefit is it makes it quicker and easier to re-engage the safety with the strong hand thumb for a right hander without having to change grip.

[GJM]

I have always found that the limiting factor with shotguns is keeping them topped off, and I think you will find that and not putting the safety on is your speed bump. All those I have trained shotgun with (Randy Cain, Clint Smith, Bill Jeans, Louis Awerbuck, and Gunsite) have been adamant about safety on before the shotgun hangs from the sling.

Interesting how preferences vary, as I removed all large Vang safety buttons from my 870 shotguns. With a standard safety button, I work it with the middle of my trigger finger, and can feel it flush with the frame and verify it is in the fire position. Not so with the Vang.

[Unobtanium]

I have always found that the limiting factor with shotguns is keeping them topped off, and I think you will find that and not putting the safety on is your speed bump. All those I have trained shotgun with (Randy Cain, Clint Smith, Bill Jeans, Louis Awerbuck, and Gunsite) have been adamant about safety on before the shotgun hangs from the sling.

Interesting how preferences vary, as I removed all large Vang safety buttons from my 870 shotguns. With a standard safety button, I work it with the middle of my trigger finger, and can feel it flush with the frame and verify it is in the fire position. Not so with the Vang.

I feel like I have done a poor job communicating my question.

I have always done this, my main question was/remains regarding drills like this:


At 2:26ish, I would have gone to "SAFE" were I using an M4 type rifle to perform this drill.

I know you aren't going to b e running this high round-count of a drill in this format with a shotgun, but t his is the type of movement I am talking about. With a carbine, I'd safe for it, no questions asked. What about with the shotgun?

[Edster]

@Dagga Boy gave some very good and useful guidance during the recent one-day class in Dallas.

I really appreciated the structure of that course and his teaching style: Enough guidance to point me in the right direction followed by enough stress to force me to work things out.

I ended making a few minor adjustments to my safety manipulation.

Shooting an 870, I find it natural and useful to rotate the gun slightly counter-clockwise and place the stock on my deltoid as I'm coming off the target and putting the safety on. Doing this, the safety is easily accessible to my index finger with less "feeling around" (that's bad near a trigger). The trigger is also within my peripheral vision to help ensure I'm not poking in the wrong place.

A few other bonuses from this:

Resting the butt on the deltoid lets my right hand focus on manipulation rather than supporting the shotgun

With a two-point sling on the left side, it's easy to control the gun down into a slung position

I'm in something like a "short-stick" position from which I can still fire if necessary. Transition back to a full hold is quick, too.

If I have to diagnose a problem, I can see the chamber. If the chamber is empty, it's an easy position to drop in a shell.

[David S.]

I'd be interested in what @Tom Givens has to say on this too.

[David S.]

FWIW. I haven't found a way to safe my 870 without breaking my grip. My safing technique is to rotate the gun inboard about 45*, and reach under the gun and apply the safety with my index finger. It seems quicker and less fumbly than reaching over the top with my thumb.

[RevolverRob]

At 2:15'ish here in this old school Gunsite video on Tactical Shotgun -



The shooter engages, comes down, does a scan, breaks the firing hand, and safeties the shotgun. That's how it's done.

Bill Jeans (who may well be the demonstrator in that Gunsite Vid) shows it in greater detail here at 6:37-38 -

[BehindBlueI's]

FWIW. I haven't found a way to safe my 870 without breaking my grip. My safing technique is to rotate the gun inboard about 45*, and reach under the gun and apply the safety with my index finger. It seems quicker and less fumbly than reaching over the top with my thumb.

We are trained to use the trigger finger from underneath as well. I reach under and re-safe before I dismount it from my shoulder.