OK, I'm a K-Frame Addict. So Sue Me.

[Stephanie B]

Stephanie you probably know this but Kroil gunsmithy oil is your friend and Brownells is where you get it.

I have a can.


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[Stephanie B]

I ordered a set of Thai combat grips from eBay for the 15-3.



They fit snugly. Haven’t shot with them, but the gun seems to point nicely.

Delivery time was 19 days.

I shot the gun with them this morning. From what I think is called a "strong-hand retention" position (elbow tight against waist), put three into COM of a thug target at 3 yards. Two-handed stance, the gun seemed to come up about right where I wanted it to be.

[BillSWPA]

I shot the gun with them this morning. From what I think is called a "strong-hand retention" position (elbow tight against waist), put three into COM of a thug target at 3 yards. Two-handed stance, the gun seemed to come up about right where I wanted it to be.

That is a tough shooting position, and good shooting from that position.

I was originally taught a “retention” position of having the gun by the hip, but have come to understand that a correct retention position is with the thumb indexed by my pectoral muscle. From a typical concealed carry holster, it is quicker and requires less total motion to go to a pectoral index than it does to bring the gun back down to the waist. It also allows me to keep my forearm aligned with the gun and wrist straight (although it appears a that your wrist would have been straight), resulting in greater accuracy. Once distance is created, simply extending out and acquiring a 2 hand grip is simple.



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[Stephanie B]

I was originally taught a “retention” position of having the gun by the hip, but have come to understand that a correct retention position is with the thumb indexed by my pectoral muscle. From a typical concealed carry holster, it is quicker and requires less total motion to go to a pectoral index than it does to bring the gun back down to the waist. It also allows me to keep my forearm aligned with the gun and wrist straight (although it appears a that your wrist would have been straight), resulting in greater accuracy. Once distance is created, simply extending out and acquiring a 2 hand grip is simple.

I can see how that would work. From the waist, I have to hold my arm at a slight upward angle, as on a straight horizontal, I'd hit in the belt/pelvis area. Your method would allow for holding on the level.

Also, it would seem that the fit of the gun to the shooter's hand and the "pointability" is of increased importance, compared to aimed fire, where that can be adjusted.

[Duelist]

I can see how that would work. From the waist, I have to hold my arm at a slight upward angle, as on a straight horizontal, I'd hit in the belt/pelvis area. Your method would allow for holding on the level.

Also, it would seem that the fit of the gun to the shooter's hand and the "pointability" is of increased importance, compared to aimed fire, where that can be adjusted.

If we count the draw stroke as (1) support hand clears cover garment, if any, or just moves to center chest, while shooting hand grasps the grip, (2) the shooting hand draws the gun and moves to index at a point along the side of the chest which marks the end of vertical movement without horizontal (forward) progress, IOW as high as the elbow can take it going vertical (my right thumb indexes right on my nipple, which probably wouldn’t work as well for a female), and the muzzle is probably still angled downward if we have a good grip and all the bones and muscles are lined up properly, (3) the shooting hand moves forward, pistol slide/barrel is level or muzzle slightly above level, and collects the support hand once the muzzle has passed it, (4) full extension, sights on target,

Then: in position 2, if we are in arm’s length of the attacker, and close retention shooting is required, the first shot(s) we can fire may well be pelvis/belt area hits, and that is a-ok. 3 is anywhere between that and full extension, so if more shooting is required, the first shot or two may hit the pelvis (2), the next pair or three may be a stomach, low sternum, high chest(3), and then at full extension (4) we may do an eye box hit. IOW, stitch up from the nads to the nasal cavity. This can be done very quickly.

[BillSWPA]

If we count the draw stroke as (1) support hand clears cover garment, if any, or just moves to center chest, while shooting hand grasps the grip, (2) the shooting hand draws the gun and moves to index at a point along the side of the chest which marks the end of vertical movement without horizontal (forward) progress, IOW as high as the elbow can take it going vertical (my right thumb indexes right on my nipple, which probably wouldn’t work as well for a female), and the muzzle is probably still angled downward if we have a good grip and all the bones and muscles are lined up properly, (3) the shooting hand moves forward, pistol slide/barrel is level or muzzle slightly above level, and collects the support hand once the muzzle has passed it, (4) full extension, sights on target,

Then: in position 2, if we are in arm’s length of the attacker, and close retention shooting is required, the first shot(s) we can fire may well be pelvis/belt area hits, and that is a-ok. 3 is anywhere between that and full extension, so if more shooting is required, the first shot or two may hit the pelvis (2), the next pair or three may be a stomach, low sternum, high chest(3), and then at full extension (4) we may do an eye box hit. IOW, stitch up from the nads to the nasal cavity. This can be done very quickly.

This is a perfect description.



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[Stephanie B]

If we count the draw stroke as (1) support hand clears cover garment, if any, or just moves to center chest, while shooting hand grasps the grip, (2) the shooting hand draws the gun and moves to index at a point along the side of the chest which marks the end of vertical movement without horizontal (forward) progress, IOW as high as the elbow can take it going vertical (my right thumb indexes right on my nipple, which probably wouldn’t work as well for a female), and the muzzle is probably still angled downward if we have a good grip and all the bones and muscles are lined up properly, (3) the shooting hand moves forward, pistol slide/barrel is level or muzzle slightly above level, and collects the support hand once the muzzle has passed it, (4) full extension, sights on target,

Then: in position 2, if we are in arm’s length of the attacker, and close retention shooting is required, the first shot(s) we can fire may well be pelvis/belt area hits, and that is a-ok. 3 is anywhere between that and full extension, so if more shooting is required, the first shot or two may hit the pelvis (2), the next pair or three may be a stomach, low sternum, high chest(3), and then at full extension (4) we may do an eye box hit. IOW, stitch up from the nads to the nasal cavity. This can be done very quickly.

I've seen guys bring their guns over to midline, with their gun forearm in contact with their body, meeting the support hand and then thrusting forward. It looks ...odd. I've never really thought much about the draw, but mine seems a bit more fluid. My support hand tends to come into contact when my gun elbow is just forward of my torso.

[BillSWPA]

I've seen guys bring their guns over to midline, with their gun forearm in contact with their body, meeting the support hand and then thrusting forward. It looks ...odd. I've never really thought much about the draw, but mine seems a bit more fluid. My support hand tends to come into contact when my gun elbow is just forward of my torso.

It is all based on economy of motion as well as getting the gun high and the sights in the line of sight as early in the drawstroke as possible.

I keep my forearm in contact with my body. The drawstrpke is very similar to an Isshinryu Karate reverse punch - a J like up then out motion. It just includes a much bigger “up” component.

By meeting the support hand early, and then thrusting out, you are acquiring your sight alignment and sight picture as the gun is moving out. By the time full extension is reached, everything should be lined up.



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[Stephanie B]

It is all based on economy of motion as well as getting the gun high and the sights in the line of sight as early in the drawstroke as possible.

I keep my forearm in contact with my body. The drawstrpke is very similar to an Isshinryu Karate reverse punch - a J like up then out motion. It just includes a much bigger “up” component.

By meeting the support hand early, and then thrusting out, you are acquiring your sight alignment and sight picture as the gun is moving out. By the time full extension is reached, everything should be lined up.

"Isshinruyu"? I have no idea....

[Dagga Boy]

For retention shooting....I find this works well on both the range and having actually ten ringed a guy with it. The key is to find a lock point on YOUR body that you can lock your connection point from the forearm and wrist to. That is different for everyone.