CCW in modern healthcare

[Ballistic_RT]

So there are multiple things to consider for carrying as a health care worker:

Legalities aside (generally it is illegal in my state, although there are "exceptions"), the biggest issue is clothing. My case for example; I am whats considered a large burly man. I wear carhartt scrubs for the material as well as the belt loops are actually functional. Using an atlas g-hook belt is no problem and more than adequate for me to carry my 509 and a spare mag in JMCK hardware. Thats OUTSIDE the hospital (as in to and from). Now, the biggest reasoning for this is that scrub tops shrink in length. Anyone who wears them regularly enough to wash them constantly knows this sad fact. Its never a huge amount, but my longest top now has the hem riding a half inch below my belt line. I dont have any worries with this outside of the hospital, but there is no way that would fly in my unit. Im around 50 some odd nurses each shift, it would get spotted for sure. Maybe not the whole holster, but the loops for sure would.

The second biggest issue is job requirements. I am in direct contact with co-workers and patient constantly. Much more so than I ever would be out and about as joe shmo. There is a huge chance that even AIWB I would end up rubbing, bumping, or pushing against someone with my carry. Its just a fact. Especially in code environments. Which brings me to my next point, say all is well and you have no issues with clothing or contact but you go to a code. That code then has you transporting your patient to MRI. You cant exactly get down to the MRI room and say, "hey wait, let me drop this right here with my badge and pen!" (for those that dont know, the MRI machine is essentially one giant magnet that is powerful enough to attract even small metal objects with such force they become lethal projectiles; therefore only approved metals are allowed past a certain point and anything else is left outside the room.) You also cant duck out and stow it in a bathroom or anything, thus leaving your carry unattended in a public restroom.

My hospital does not allow carry. The status quo is the only legal option is for it to be left in the car. I will not disclose on here my method, but suffice to say it is not left in the car. You are welcome to PM me for that info though.

[45dotACP]

I go to WAY too many MRIs to carry even a knife (or maybe especially a knife....a razor sharp fixed blade flying through their air is probably a solid nope) in the hospital. If anything, consider a "socially acceptable weapon" like pepper spray. Lot of the nurses I work with carry pepper spray on their keychains.

It's also one of the reasons I go to a BJJ gym.

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[Ballistic_RT]

I go to WAY too many MRIs to carry even a knife (or maybe especially a knife....a razor sharp fixed blade flying through their air is probably a solid nope) in the hospital. If anything, consider a "socially acceptable weapon" like pepper spray. Lot of the nurses I work with carry pepper spray on their keychains.

It's also one of the reasons I go to a BJJ gym.

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pepper spray or some type of blunt object. Maybe a ceramic/g10 blade and kydex only sheathe?

[BillSWPA]

I go to WAY too many MRIs to carry even a knife (or maybe especially a knife....a razor sharp fixed blade flying through their air is probably a solid nope) in the hospital. If anything, consider a "socially acceptable weapon" like pepper spray. Lot of the nurses I work with carry pepper spray on their keychains.

It's also one of the reasons I go to a BJJ gym.

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Given the potential need expressed above to change scrubs as well as the possibility, regardless of how remote, of an unexpected trip to the MRI, there is A LOT to be said for the quoted solution. It may be the only truly workable one.



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[45dotACP]

Believe me, if I could I would. Especially with what happened at Delnor Hospital in my state...But beyond legality it's just not feasible.

Story time: Last Thanksgiving I actually had a patient family member in the hallway of my unit who was broadcasting a schizoaffective type mental crisis coupled with some form of intoxication threatening​ to shoot their sibling (who was in the patients room). Said it very deliberately and matter of fact. Like they were telling me the weather. I had no clue if they were armed and I was the charge RN at the time so there was nobody else to ask what to do because with two years as a RN under my belt, I was the senior nurse that day. I had my fellow RN who was a linebacker in high school stand with them and talk, and called security to escort said family member from the unit ASAP. I went back and waited with my nurse and this person and listened and tried to talk them down. Until security got there I had a can of pepper spray clenched in my fist behind my far leg and was standing within arms reach in case I needed an arm tie or underhook.

It was fucking eerie. And also one of the huge reasons I started getting back into BJJ after a hiatus. But having the pepper spray at least made me feel like I had a plan.

People have been actually shot inpatient in hospital before...so it was on my mind when I started working there and ESPECIALLY last Thanksgiving. The pepper spray I buy every 6 months and practice with inert trainers just to stay familiar.

Fuckin holidays man.

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[JohnO]

I go to WAY too many MRIs to carry even a knife (or maybe especially a knife....a razor sharp fixed blade flying through their air is probably a solid nope) in the hospital. If anything, consider a "socially acceptable weapon" like pepper spray. Lot of the nurses I work with carry pepper spray on their keychains.

It's also one of the reasons I go to a BJJ gym.

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For anyone who goes into a MRI Magnet Room ferrous objects are a major liability. A container of pepper spray could easily be ferrous. Anything going into a magnet room should be checked with a hand held magnet.

Ferrous items that get too close to the magnet are drawn in. People have been killed by ferrous objects drawn into the bore of the magnet. Even a small item like a can of pepper spray can cause damage. Once an item is pulled into the magnet it ends up stuck to the magnet somewhere. Sometimes the object can be pulled off the magnet with a come-along. If that isn't an option the magnetic field must be ramped down, object removed and then the field is ramped back up. The fix is a time consuming and expensive process and the facility isn't making money with the MRI (more money). Something as small as a paper clip can adversely effect the homogeneity of the magnetic field resulting in poor imaging. Employees who screw up and cause an event in a magnet room are usually fired on the spot.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=92745&page=1

[45dotACP]

For anyone who goes into a MRI Magnet Room ferrous objects are a major liability. A container of pepper spray could easily be ferrous. Anything going into a magnet room should be checked with a hand held magnet.

Ferrous items that get too close to the magnet are drawn in. People have been killed by ferrous objects drawn into the bore of the magnet. Even a small item like a can of pepper spray can cause damage. Once an item is pulled into the magnet it ends up stuck to the magnet somewhere. Sometimes the object can be pulled off the magnet with a come-along. If that isn't an option the magnetic field must be ramped down, object removed and then the field is ramped back up. The fix is a time consuming and expensive process and the facility isn't making money with the MRI (more money). Something as small as a paper clip can adversely effect the homogeneity of the magnetic field resulting in poor imaging. Employees who screw up and cause an event in a magnet room are usually fired on the spot.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=92745&page=1

Yes, I don't carry the spray into the room...a co-worker found out about the "glasses and MRI machine" thing the hard way lol.

Still, taking off my keys and putting my pepper spray on the desk before going into a field is a more socially acceptable choice than popping out a blade and asking our radiology techs to hold on to it for a sec.

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[YVK]

Issue with scrubs is not a concealment, it is concealment and accessibility. If you are wearing belly band or similar kind of gear, you want to be sure that you can draw without undoing the draw string. For most scrubs, especially light and baggy OR types, it is a problem as most people need to cinch that drawstring pretty tight. I personally would rather have no gun than gun in hand and no mobility because my scrubs are around my ankles. So you really want to have grip above the drawstring, and that may or may not present concealment issues depending on body type, thickness and color of scrubs, and size of a gun. Clipped holster with G42/43 is probably a better option here. Ankle rig is OK but doesn't work for all, especially if you have to wear protective gaiters. Considering the consequences of being noticed, folks need to have an hard and honest assessment of risk/benefits. Bad things do happen in health care but still not that often. If somebody is starting to draw on me and I am carrying in scrubs, I won't be able to beat him with a draw. So I personally don't do on body carry when in scrubs. Just my own pro/contra assessment.

[drummer]

I'm not a medical professional, thank God, but I do work extra shifts doing security for a surgical center. Florida doesn't have a blanket prohibition on carrying in hospitals and medical clinics. Many hospitals do post signs, however.

I use a Smart Carry for working out and running and it would probably work well under scrubs with a G42, 43, Shield, etc. Lighter is probably better here. That's where the Glocks have an advantage over the Shield and PPS.

If MRIs are a concern, something like a Scandium Titanium J-frame with less magnetic signature may be preferred. FWIW, people don't actively look for firearms in hospitals. I literally lived in an ICU for well over a month a couple of years ago when a loved one was in the hospital. I slept in my clothes with pistol IWB every night with none the wiser. Granted, as a LEO, the repercussions if discovered were minimal.

[NETim]

One place that is a major No Go in the MRI Magnet room.

Yeah. That generates a service call. Then one of those Field Service Engineers shows up on site (hopefully that day) and has to remove the firearm from the magnet. (Hopefully it didn't hit anyone on its flight into the bore of the magnet.)

Depending on how much iron is in the shootin' iron, the magnet may have to be ramped down, an expensive and time consuming operation.

I'd be SO nervous around a firearm in big magnet. God only knows what the field has done to the safeties and sears and such. And when the magnetic field decreases as it's ramped down, who knows what if anything is now holding the hammer/sear back? Jeesh!

Big magnets are scary.