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Thread: CCW in modern healthcare

  1. #21
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    Understood. I offered that as it was relevant to the topic of CCW methods in the health care arena. If the scrubs were cut correctly and left untucked, a draw from under the scrub top is very workable. This would be especially true with an inverted carry style of shoulder rig and a small revolver or pistol. Sorry. I should have made my thoughts clearer.

  2. #22
    I’ve had GREAT luck wearing Tom from Dark Star Gear’s clip on type holsters. I typically wear Under Armor or Adidas wicking underwear, and as a precautionary measure, tuck my clip on holster into my draw string scrubs AND my drawers (hey, you asked homie). That way, I can literally move about wherever and I’m good. Access under surgical garb is nil, since I’ll need to reach past my knees to skin the garment out of the way. But, for milling about, it’s great. And nobody knows, unless you go about rubbing your genitals on them, which is generally frowned upon in the medical profession. Your state may vary...

    I’ve also done the ankle carry with scrubs. I wear, “L/L,” (large long) scrubs (36” inseam), and never had an incidence of exposure. Of course, sitting access is great, and I still recommend ankle carry for a second gun if you have the build and cardiovascular system to support it. But for primary carry, I’m much happier with a robust crotch (AIWB) carry method. I pull off a Shield this way, and it doubles as a familiarity benefit since I carry the same way in gym shorts.




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  3. #23
    Oh...I also in my office work routinely rock the old George Clooney/Doug Ross MD look and wear khakis or chinos or Duluth Carpenters with a t shirt and scrub shirt, and nobody knows the wiser. Scrub shirts are great concealment garments.

    In fact, if you see me at a class or in a class photo and that’s what I’m wearing, it’s not because I rushed there from pulling teeth or I’m that hardcore about showing off my embroidered garments...it’s to get the reps in.

    . Fat Dentist, Full Size M&P9, three magazines, and two Givens’.




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  4. #24
    Back in the early 80’s, residents at the Chicago and New York hospitals where I worked wore “whites”; white pants, white jacket, scrub shirt, no concealment issues with the coat on, but since the coat was frequently off, I finally settled on a small waist pack, worn up front with a J-frame under a 2XL scrub top.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by BillSWPA View Post
    I do not work in healthcare and may therefore be a bit out of my lane, but for a 10 year period, I carried daily in environments where it was legal but could have resulted in serious consequences if I was caught.

    Ankle holsters are not a good solution. There is too much risk of the pant leg rising up at the wrong time, particularly if sitting without a desk or table in front of you, which would likely be common in health care.

    I will guess that an additional consideration might be the likelihood of coming into physical contact with people in a wide variety of ways in a wide variety of circumstances as you do your job. The gun would have to be positioned where it was unlikely to be felt. Smart Carry might be a particularly good choice for that reason.

    A belly band under the scrub pants could work, but use one with a thumb break retention strap. Having the gun fall out at the wrong time would not be good.

    Depending on the pockets of your scrubs and what you may or may not need to keep in them, don't neglect the possibility of pocket carry of a small gun.

    Also consider whether your facility has metal detectors, and if so, whether setting it off will be an issue. At one local facility, visitors are searched, but staff walk right through the metal detector, setting it off, and keep going without any issues. If that is not your situation, you may need a place to secure your gun, and a way to transfer it to/from that location.
    That was my concern with ankle holsters. I'm right handed so would be talking about a left ankle holster, which is also the leg I naturally cross while sitting. Have been paying attention at work and it seems the cuff rises up a little too much for comfort. Also tend to have dead time between operations where we are sitting together in large groups, too many people around to potentially notice an ankle holster.

    Quote Originally Posted by zuplex View Post
    In the recent past I have had to deal with dressing in a tucked in shirt with no jacket. I settled on a SmartCarry/Thunderwear type product. It takes some adjusting and experimentation, but with the right color/cut of pants and shirt even a mid-size double stack 9mm is almost invisible. I used to carry a single stack 9mm like this and it was invisible.

    Downsides: the draw is slower if the shirt is tucked. That said, I worked on par times in dry fire the other night and I could draw and "click" within 2.5-3.0 seconds. I might be able to improve that with practice.

    It's a pretty comfortable solution to wear all day, whether sitting or standing. I've used the same system for jogging, yard work, etc. even ran a 5k with it carrying a Beretta Nano. I would seriously consider it for carrying in an NPE, especially if a pocket pistol is not a good option.
    No question the draw from any of these 3 options will be compromised, but not nearly as compromised as having to ask an assailant to hold that thought while I run out to the car and retrieve my handgun. I think the Rangemaster newsletter reinforced this point pretty bluntly. Would rather have to deal with a 2-3 sec draw than not be carrying at all. Situational awareness may certainly help and have me primed for the draw also, ie walking out to the car late at night.

    Had also thought about getting a low profile kydex holster to use inside the smart carry/thunderwear. Think something like a JMCK IWB3 without the wedge. Sew some ndustrial Velco on the inside of the smart carry pocket, opposite Velco on both sides of the holster. Would allow me to control depth and cant a little better to help with concealment and draw. Also would make feel a little better about protecting the trigger.


    Quote Originally Posted by Cypher View Post
    Does your employer specify a certain type of scrubs? I know of a couple of companies that make scrub pants that are pants complete with belt loops. I also have seen people that wear a scrub top and EMT (5.11) pants.

    I also went to school with a woman who paid 60 bucks a set to have officially licensed Grey's Anatomy Scrubs (I am not kidding she wore light blue (resident) scrubs all through school and dark blue (attending) after graduation) but that's another story
    I do have "hospital" scrubs with fancy name and all but we are required to change into "OR" scrubs in both hospital and adjacent ambulatory OR's (supposed to reduce infection risk even though there is no real science to support that claim!). So that limits the ability to use any of the specialty scrubs out there. Would love to get away with those that are frequently used by ED staff, look just like 5.11 pants with side pockets on the thigh. Would have been perfect for pocket carry.

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sean M View Post
    An option for such environments is a non-metallic blade. I’d rather have a gun in a gunfight, but a sharp stick is still better than walking into a fight with just your cock in your hand.
    Fortunately there is very little need for me to go visit patients near the MRI magnet. Would be an awfully embarrassing way to be outed for sure.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jason M View Post
    Back in my MedEvac days, a shoulder holster with a J Frame or a PPK concealed well beneath a flight suit. Perhaps a Ken Null SKR holster would work for a small pistol or revolver.
    Don't think a shoulder holster would fly (pun intended) but I had considered something like the 5.11 holster shirt. Think it would be an even more compromised draw than smart carry and truthfully 2 layers of clothes that become 3 in an OR gets awfully hot, awfully quick.

    Anybody had success using a "holster shirt"?

    Quote Originally Posted by Nephrology View Post
    This sounds like a way better solution than relying on the scrub waistband. Cherokee makes some good ER/nursing style scrubs that do support the weight of a J frame or single stack semi auto like a G42/43/Shield when using a clip style AIWB holster, but they are not OR scrubs.

    As a student I don't carry in any clinical environment. Our ER has 24/7 armed security, but that was not exactly reassuring when walking to my car from the county hospital ED last night at 0330. Just not worth it for me at this point in my career. Maybe when I am attending in 300 years time...


    If I trusted the security of the parking lots at the county hospital I spend time at, I would do the same... but I don't. Way more likely to get jacked from my car than for me to use it in self defense while driving.


    This might vary regionally and based on your practice, but typically at large hospitals they require you to wear hospital provided linen service scrubs if you are in the OR. You might more leeway if you aren't with a surgical service.

    In contrast, it is almost part of the culture for ER docs wear literally whatever the fuck they want. Popular combos include carhartts or dress pants w/ scrub top and scrub pants with T-shirt and sweater. Whenever I see one in a set of scrubs and long white coat I confuse them for a consulting service.
    So, my roommate in medical school used to "volunteer" at the trauma center sewing up lacerations on the weekend often leaving around 0300-0400. He felt the same way, which is why he used to carry an old school reflex hammer with him. The kind with the big round head to check reflexes and the sharp pointed spear at the other end to check sensation. Felt it was he best defense around a trauma center where gang bangers used to show up to try and finish the job.

    CCW while still in medical training is daunting at best. It will be a difficult scenario for me to pull off even having the luxury of being on the other side becoming a licensed US physician, board certified in my specialty , and privileged at my healthcare facility. For those out of the medical world, even a misdemeanor charge, does not require a conviction, can cause a big hiccup in all of those processes.

    Totally agree about the ER scurbs, would be perfect for many people in healthcare, but I can't make that work.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sherman A. House DDS View Post
    I’ve had GREAT luck wearing Tom from Dark Star Gear’s clip on type holsters. I typically wear Under Armor or Adidas wicking underwear, and as a precautionary measure, tuck my clip on holster into my draw string scrubs AND my drawers (hey, you asked homie). That way, I can literally move about wherever and I’m good. Access under surgical garb is nil, since I’ll need to reach past my knees to skin the garment out of the way. But, for milling about, it’s great. And nobody knows, unless you go about rubbing your genitals on them, which is generally frowned upon in the medical profession. Your state may vary...

    I’ve also done the ankle carry with scrubs. I wear, “L/L,” (large long) scrubs (36” inseam), and never had an incidence of exposure. Of course, sitting access is great, and I still recommend ankle carry for a second gun if you have the build and cardiovascular system to support it. But for primary carry, I’m much happier with a robust crotch (AIWB) carry method. I pull off a Shield this way, and it doubles as a familiarity benefit since I carry the same way in gym shorts.




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    Will definitely have to give that a try. I have JMCK AIWB holster already for my PPS, will play around with it and see how that works.

  8. #28
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    One more general thought, this place rocks! I have been hanging around here since the forum opened. Post count is near non-existent as most topics here are "read only" for my and my knowledge base. I come here to soak up as much as I can and become smarter and better about self defense.

    That being said, I have looked this topic up at least 3 different times over the last 7 years since my first child was born and I got my CCW. In less than 24 hours you guys have produced more real knowledge about CCW in healthcare than all the anecdotal information I had previously found combined. I know its a little past Pfestivus, but I love this place and the mods are shiit!

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike C View Post
    As a guy who might have carried one a time or two do you have any preferences? I know Special Circumstances makes such a knife and Ian Wendt stuff looks great but are there other options that you like or work well for the above described needs?
    I don’t have a lot of experience outside of Ian’s work. I had a heavily modified clinch type blade of Ti/Carbon Fiber and jt served me well during an Afghanistan deployment in 2013-2104. I’ve since sold it, but kept my Ceramic/CF clinch pick type blade. Rolling into embassies and other high security areas in high threat environments never attracted any attention from metal detectors or pat downs.

    Unfortunately that’s the extent of my experience with such products. I found what worked for me on my first try, so never went looking for anything more.
    You can get much more of what you want with a kind word and a gun, than with a kind word alone.

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Sean M View Post
    I don’t have a lot of experience outside of Ian’s work. I had a heavily modified clinch type blade of Ti/Carbon Fiber and jt served me well during an Afghanistan deployment in 2013-2104. I’ve since sold it, but kept my Ceramic/CF clinch pick type blade. Rolling into embassies and other high security areas in high threat environments never attracted any attention from metal detectors or pat downs.

    Unfortunately that’s the extent of my experience with such products. I found what worked for me on my first try, so never went looking for anything more.
    Thanks for the perspective. I've only handled Ian's work once and can see why you would say that.

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