CCW in modern healthcare

[CoGT3]

So I have been meaning to poise this question as a follow up to Tom Given's last Rangemaster newsletter. I was struck by the section regarding always carrying and that as far as he is concerned he has not had a former student "lose" a violent encounter. However, he did have 3 "forfeit" by not carrying at the time they really needed.

The healthcare environment is certainly not the protected world it used to be. It was in 2015 that a CV surgeon was shot and killed in his office by the disgruntled son of a former patient. Last year, a pain management physician was shot an killed in the parking lot of his office by the husband of a patient. Most health systems do have security on site, but most are not armed to protect and confront a would be assailant.

In my field, I pretty much spend all day in scrubs be it in the hospital or clinic. Living in So. FL, i generally am not wearing a white coat, just too hot most of the year. So the question I have always struggled with is how could I reliable carry in this environment so that I don't become one of Tom's forfeitures?

I have searched this site recently and outside of some anecdotal comments can not find a thorough discussion of other healthcare workers carry experience. Previous searches across the internet have turned up 3 basic models of carry:

1) Fanny pack
2) "smart carry" or something similar
3) Ankle holster

For me personally I would be looking for a way to comfortably and reliably carry a walther PPS or less likely a J frame. I don't think the fanny pack would be the best option for me, haven't used one at the hospital for 14 years and if I showed up one day wearing one I believe it would probably draw too much attention as a change from the norm. Also do not work in a field where you routinely see staff using fanny packs such as the ER or anesthesia providers. Previous research lead me to believe a version of "smart carry" would probably work beneath scrubs and allow me to securely carry my PPS. Fortunately, I have access to private restrooms to prevent accidental exposure of the smart carry. This was one draw back frequently mentioned they last time i researched the topic. I have no experience with ankle carry or ankle holsters but was an option mention by some across the net. Form what I have read hear about ankle holsters this seems to be where the lighter weight J frame may excel given the heavier weight of good ankle holsters. Also not sure how well light weight scrub pants would do at covering a ankle holster.

Would love to hear any insights/thoughts from those that have faced the same carry dilemmas. As a father of 3, who frequently is walking out to parking lots late at night I really believe its time for me to figure out a solution.

PS: Would prefer to stay away from discussions about the legality of CCW at healthcare facilities. That is a whole other topic of discussion that likely can only be answered by legal counsel in your state of residence. The best I can tell in my state is there are conflicting state statutes on the matter with no case law to clarify the matter. Once I figure out the how, I plan on getting legal counsel on the matter to get a better understanding of state case law, and establishing someone to call if needed.

[Hizzie]

In Texas hospitals are a no go. The violence against healthcare workers is stupid high. I spent 5 of my 12 years in LE working the housing projects. I have worked in the ER for 2.5 years. Guess which place I have been assaulted more???

[Cypher]

When I worked in the medicajl field I used suspenders to hold my scrubs and a clip on holster.

[Doc_Glock]

I have tried many different scrub carry solutions. The best was AIWB with the belt directly on skin, scrubs tied over top and shirt untucked.

Have done more than a few surgeries this way and the techs never know.

Alternative is a really light pistol in a clip holster on scrubs tied. Has to be G42 light.

Belly band also works, but not as well as a belt IMO.

[CoGT3]

I have tried many different scrub carry solutions. The best was AIWB with the belt directly on skin, scrubs tied over top and shirt untucked.

Have done more than a few surgeries this way and the techs never know.

Alternative is a really light pistol in a clip holster on scrubs tied. Has to be G42 light.

Belly band also works, but not as well as a belt IMO.

Great input. I saw something in the past geared toward women and aiwb. Similar kind of system aiwb holster and belt meant to be worn beneath jeans.

Did you the leave the scrub top untucked for easier access tot he holster or for concealment?


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[Doc_Glock]

Did you the leave the scrub top untucked for easier access tot he holster or for concealment?

Concealment. You can tuck the top with some blousing though.

I can carry a G 19 sized pistol easily this way.

[JohnO]

One place that is a major No Go in the MRI Magnet room.

[BillSWPA]

I do not work in healthcare and may therefore be a bit out of my lane, but for a 10 year period, I carried daily in environments where it was legal but could have resulted in serious consequences if I was caught.

Ankle holsters are not a good solution. There is too much risk of the pant leg rising up at the wrong time, particularly if sitting without a desk or table in front of you, which would likely be common in health care.

I will guess that an additional consideration might be the likelihood of coming into physical contact with people in a wide variety of ways in a wide variety of circumstances as you do your job. The gun would have to be positioned where it was unlikely to be felt. Smart Carry might be a particularly good choice for that reason.

A belly band under the scrub pants could work, but use one with a thumb break retention strap. Having the gun fall out at the wrong time would not be good.

Depending on the pockets of your scrubs and what you may or may not need to keep in them, don't neglect the possibility of pocket carry of a small gun.

Also consider whether your facility has metal detectors, and if so, whether setting it off will be an issue. At one local facility, visitors are searched, but staff walk right through the metal detector, setting it off, and keep going without any issues. If that is not your situation, you may need a place to secure your gun, and a way to transfer it to/from that location.

[zuplex]

In the recent past I have had to deal with dressing in a tucked in shirt with no jacket. I settled on a SmartCarry/Thunderwear type product. It takes some adjusting and experimentation, but with the right color/cut of pants and shirt even a mid-size double stack 9mm is almost invisible. I used to carry a single stack 9mm like this and it was invisible.

Downsides: the draw is slower if the shirt is tucked. That said, I worked on par times in dry fire the other night and I could draw and "click" within 2.5-3.0 seconds. I might be able to improve that with practice.

It's a pretty comfortable solution to wear all day, whether sitting or standing. I've used the same system for jogging, yard work, etc. even ran a 5k with it carrying a Beretta Nano. I would seriously consider it for carrying in an NPE, especially if a pocket pistol is not a good option.

[Paul D]

Black scrubs, socks and shoes. G42 in a Desantis Apache holster. Spyderco all black (including screws) Endura folder clipped AIWB. With ID badge and phone holster clipped at the waistline, it blends in nicely and you can work all day. So says somebody I know...