Sig Sauer and the 320 debacle

[Cory]

My first pistol was a Sig P220 that I bought around 2011. Multiple parts breakage under 400 rounds occurred. It was sent back to Sig and repaired, but I never trusted it again and sold it immediately upon it's return. I think my P220 was a particularly bad gun, and I tried not to let it change the way I viewed Sig... but to say that the pistol was flawed is an understatement, and to say it didn't change my view of them is a half truth at best.

I was never into the 320s. They seemed neat, but didn't do anything (for me) that a Glock doesn't do. I can't honestly see myself changing modules all the time, so for me that seemed gimmicky. I wasn't shopping for a new pistol when the 320 came out, and I wouldn't have looked to them if I was.

Other gun companies have made mistakes and swept them under the rug as well. But with my personal bad experience with Sig, and their poor business practice, and dwindling reputation for quality I can't say that I'll ever be looking to them in the future. Regardless of the date of manufacture, model, or perceived use I won't be buying any Sig for at least a decade. Probably never.

-Cory

[gtae07]

My first Sig was a Mosquito that I bought used several years ago. It had issues, which I came to find out were endemic to the model. I fixed it to a degree but never had it working reliably.

I bought a P320 back in January, when I got serious about carrying again and wanted something to replace my old Taurus, and I really liked it. Then the issues came out.

The way they handled the recall-that's-not-a-recall led my wife to buy me a G19 as a birthday present, and for commonality reasons we decided to just be a Glock family. I wound up selling my Mosquito for what I had in it, and the P320 I traded for a G17. I'll probably never buy another Sig.

[LockedBreech]

I'm not going to pull some retarded "Dixie Chicks" move and get rid of all my Sigs (all classic P-series, most bought used, all good guns) out of some sort of emotional vendetta.

That said, I won't be buying anything new from them for a few years. The P320 matter was handled with dishonesty and evasion. Further, I had already grown wearied at the high-speed low-drag marketing, complete with allusions to special forces, challenge coins, being in "elite company" etc. when the company is still having trouble figuring out basic things like finish quality and magazine springs on a regular basis. Even Glock's LEO-centric and Perfection-centric marketing never got as irritating to me as Sig's in recent years.

I believe the culture of quality at SIG is a rapidly eroding iceberg that marketing has been eating away at for a decade+ now. Off the shelf, I trust an HK or Beretta miles more than I trust an off-the-shelf Sig now, and that's one of the most basic indicators of quality to me, maybe the most basic.

[Rmiked]

I am a rookie compared to most of you guys. First semi-auto Jan 2017 was a Beretta 92-A1. Absolutely love it. Reliable and accurate thru about 1900 rounds. After getting my first semi-auto I began wanting another of a different type of action. The Beretta delayed blowback locking block is very neat keeping the barrel in line throughout the cycle. I am also a huge fan of John Browning and was reading about the Hi-power design, which rotates the barrel slightly during the cycle. After learning that the Sig P226 was this design AND the Sig competed head-to-head with the Beretta 92 (military contract), I bought a P226 MK25. I love the SIG 226. It has proven very reliable and accurate thru about 500 rounds. Having become accustomed to a SA/DA design with my S&W 686 (357 revolver) for 30 years, I never could feel comfortable about a striker fired pistol where I can't see the hammer (call me weird). I considered the P320 but couldn't feel good about striker design and the pistol was just too new for me. The longstanding history of the Beretta 92 and SIG 226 means volumes to me. I think SIG Mgmt was deceptive to consumers regarding the P320 such that someone could get hurt or possible killed and I am not a fan of their Senior Mgmt because of that. I didn't feel like denying myself a 226 due to current Mgmt since the 226 pre-dates them. I have to admit I think I have 2 Classic semi-autos that have stood the test of time. If it were not for this forum I would not have selected the 2 semi-autos I have. Thanks to all for sharing your experienice. My son has a Glock and it is reliable and accurate so I am not judging striker fired pistols. Just saying for a guy that has learned handguns on 686 (for 30 years), the exposed hammer, DA/SA is for me. My wife also can handle the 686 and the transition to a Beretta 92 or SIG 226 for home defense (we have grandchildren) was easy for her. Unrelated issue is my wife was not crazy about pistols until we got grandchildren. If I am not home, I pity anyone who might consider taking or hurting our grandchildren. Funny how when you think about the things you would hate to lose, guns are not so bad. So I hope SIG gets the issues resolved for the P320 owners. Hope no one gets hurt in the meantime. I always use the decocker on my 226 as I understand that is the designed intent. No downside to using decocker.

[KhanRad]

This was posted on Sig Forums today. So, there is some hope with the changes at least. Confidence in Sig is still in the eye of the beholder.

"Houston... the Eagle has landed!

My P320 is back from Sig and is upgraded.
First impressions... well packed and sealed, original case is tie wrapped closed, very clean.

Trigger... very very much like the original. Easy take up, very slight stack up, then a crisp break. The Reset is short and crisp, very tactile. The double click is gone. I like it a whole lot.

To those worried about a slide swap, it looks like my original and the paperwork verifies it."

[STI]

I don't look down at Sig.

It's more that I can find other firearm manufacturers to select who have not shown what I consider to be wanton disregard for recorded injuries stemming directly from features of their machines that they are directly in control of, whether that be design, proof testing, or the results of the variability of their manufacturing process.

[Gio]

I've pretty much written Sig off due to the whole issue. I wasn't realistically going to shoot a sig pistol for any serious use anyway because I'm issued and heavily invested in Glock, but I was about to order and try their ROMEO4M optic for a new carbine I have after hearing good reviews on it. I went with a T2 instead because of how Sig handled this issue. I don't feel like getting into another EOTECH-type situation where a problem with the optic is discovered but the manufacturer blames everyone else for their defective product.

I was also planning on delving into PCC this off season. I was deciding between a JP GMR series 9mm AR or a Sig MPX. I'll be definitely going with the JP now.

[Screwball]

I am a fan of the classic design, and have a German P228 that I’ll never sell. But won’t buy new ones due to pricing. Why can I get a comparable CZ or Beretta for a few hundred less? I understand costs to manufacture, but the current P226 isn’t worth the price new. If their CPO prices were the new prices, I’d be more interested.

I also have a P938... which I’m running to make sure it is reliable enough before sending it to Robar. Magazine release is my main concern, since I swapped out the mainspring housing (still want to run it and make sure it is good to go). I got into it because it was the best 9mm option out there for me... at the time I purchased it. Glock and S&W didn’t have anything out, and wanted something small as it was replacing my LCP (kind of). I like the SAO design, but 1911s are too big/heavy for my liking (I’d carry a Glock 30S over one... and do).

The P320... it is actually my favorite modular design. I feel it has the traction to really become a standard in the upcoming years. But SIG really turned a lot of people off from it with that BS upgrade. Sorry, but when a unupgraded gun drops and shoots someone... this is going to come up again. Civil court, “you made a voluntary upgrade, and an firearm that wasn’t upgraded did X.” SIG just opened themselves up to a lot of liability, but beyond that... they call the gun safe and could possibly injure/kill someone. That’s very jerked-off, if you ask me.

It pisses me off more that they make sure to point out that it doesn’t effect the military contract. It should. SIG should be in touch with the military, say they found a problem that wasn’t shown in testing, and implement a fix so those in our military don’t have to worry about the gun going off when dropped a certain way.

If I’m issued a P320, I’ll use it... but will be one that is upgraded, as I’m sure new guns would be. Any question... I’ll get a little rubber mallet out and check. But I am personally not biting the bullet on one specifically due to that BS. Maybe later on, but my money will go elsewhere in the foreseeable future. If SIG mans up to their fault and issues a recall, I’ll reevaluate my stance at that time.

[cheby]

While I liked their classic guns, I never liked their 320 pistols... even before their recent debacle. After their "voluntary upgrade" BS, I am done with SIG completely. It is just astonishing how this gun could get the military contract....

[nate89]

I'm heavily invested in classic P-series Sigs. I also have 2 P320s that are waiting on shipping labels. While I'm disappointed in some of the garbage that Sig has put out, I'll keep shooting their pistols.

Same for me, sans any 320s in my possession right now. I have been very close a few times to dumping the p series guns I have any going with the czp07/09, 92 or px4 Beretta, or the HK p30, but the hassle of selling all the support gear, the hit I would take on everything, and the fact that every 226/229 I own has been phenomenal both accuracy and reliability-wise just keeps me shooting what I have.