Slam Fire, Muzzle Direction on Reload

[Doc_Glock]

I had a ND (technically several) with an AR while loading due to hammer follow. It had failed to fire. On clearing the round and re-clambering a round, it went cyclic into the dirt 6 ft in front of me for about 5 rounds.

After changing my shorts I assessed the problem and found one of the pins holding the trigger group had backed out of one side of the receiver allowing the part of the trigger group that grabs the hammer after firing (don’t know technical name) to be cock-eyed and and miss the hammer as it cycled. The hammer followed the bolt home and continued to light off rounds til it caught again.

It was a new to me, used rifle and the prior owner had installed and not reinstalled properly the pins and springs so that the arms of the springs go into the grooves on the pins and hold them in place.

So I agree with having a good backstop while loading. [emoji106]

[Hambo]

I've never seen one in a pistol. I did see a SxS shotgun fire both barrels on closing the action.

[Redhat]

I had a ND (technically several) with an AR while loading due to hammer follow. It had failed to fire. On clearing the round and re-clambering a round, it went cyclic into the dirt 6 ft in front of me for about 5 rounds.

After changing my shorts I assessed the problem and found one of the pins holding the trigger group had backed out of one side of the receiver allowing the part of the trigger group that grabs the hammer after firing (don’t know technical name) to be cock-eyed and and miss the hammer as it cycled. The hammer followed the bolt home and continued to light off rounds til it caught again.

It was a new to me, used rifle and the prior owner had installed and not reinstalled properly the pins and springs so that the arms of the springs go into the grooves on the pins and hold them in place.

So I agree with having a good backstop while loading. [emoji106]

If you don't know already, I'd highly recommend learning to do a function check on all your weapons.

[Dagga Boy]

Well your interfering with their "work space" causing training scars and such ya know. I had the same issues at a range I worked at when we told some hi-speed types the muzzle had to remain level and down range at ALL times.

So at your facility, how do you teach it?

FWIW, I've never seen one with the M9 in about 15 years on the range...I did hear a rumor about one but it was never confirmed.

Lower the muzzle to a height where the backstop will retain a round. Kind of a combo of the basic safety rule about backstops and the one about muzzles in case you screw up the one about your trigger finger.

[Redhat]

Lower the muzzle to a height where the backstop will retain a round. Kind of a combo of the basic safety rule about backstops and the one about muzzles in case you screw up the one about your trigger finger.

I guess what I was getting at was... do they wind up loading at somewhere around waist level or with arm fully extended at eye level...that sort of thing.

[JHC]

Do we think it makes as much difference on the street where it could be much harder to assess each direction's risk factor during an emergency reload?

[Dagga Boy]

I guess what I was getting at was... do they wind up loading at somewhere around waist level or with arm fully extended at eye level...that sort of thing.

We have fairly high berms. A shooter only needs to articulate their arm down a few degrees. If your elbow goes to the same location every time on a reload the forearm merely has to move up or down and is always on the same plane for your support hand to find it. It isn’t really rocket science or difficult to figure out. Again, goes back to simple working around the four basic safety rules.

[HCM]

With modern guns, when somebody says they had a slam fire, you're usually looking at somebody that had a negligent discharge and can't or won't admit it. There are all manner and legion of evil genies and demons out there waiting to crawl into your gun and shoot it, ya know!

This^^^^ - haven't seen or experienced one in person. The ones I've seen after the fact have been:

Agency / GOV Training AR due to wear / lack of PMCS / hammer follow (plus one which fired when the safety was taken off after a botched pistol grip swap)
1911's which were "bubba'ed'
Finger on the trigger

Never seen a slam fire with a modern service auto but I have broken a firing pin on a HK USP Compact so maybe I'm just lucky.

[OlongJohnson]

I am also aware of someone who let off a round reaching for the paddle release on an HK VP9...

I am a middle finger mag releaser with paddles. Sweeping the trigger finger down from its slide index to activate the paddle seems like asking for it to get on the trigger sooner or later.

[Peally]

I am a middle finger mag releaser with paddles. Sweeping the trigger finger down from its slide index to activate the paddle seems like asking for it to get on the trigger sooner or later.

So far so good and I've done a million billion reloads.