Slam Fire, Muzzle Direction on Reload

[Sal Picante]

I have had the striker release on a PPQ, from the force of the new magazine going home. The firing pin block prevented a discharge, but I could see how a round could discharge if that safety failed. I am also aware of someone who let off a round reaching for the paddle release on an HK VP9, and numerous instances of people getting a finger on the trigger during a reload, and discharging a round.

I want the muzzle level during the reload as it is more efficient, so a round would not go over a berm. This is a screenshot as the magazine is inserted.

Attachment 20985

... and that's why God created hammers to hang on guns...

[txdpd]

I had a broken firing pin in a Sig that was stuck in the breech face. The firing pin got lodged in the case just above the primer and stopped the slide from going into battery. I haven't seen them all but I don't think that a tilt barrel locking pistol is going to slam fire from a stuck firing pin.

[Mr_White]

I might have seen it happen one time. There was one instance I was present for, where a well-skilled shooter was reloading (I believe from slidelock) in a match stage, and the gun fired when the slide went forward. The shooter DQ'd himself, thought the gun (some sort of Limited gun) had slam fired, but he's a really thoughtful guy and also suspected his own trigger finger even though his memory told him that he had not caused the discharge by having finger in the trigger guard. So it was an indefinite case of whether it was the gun or the finger.

Never.

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Good to see you posting!

[Clusterfrack]

I witnessed a slam fire at a carbine match. On load and make ready, a guy with an AK fired one into the ground a yard in front of him and the RO. Broken firing pin.

[Jim Watson]

1. Glock shooter at IDPA Nationals. LAMR Bang into the berm. The SO was looking right at him and confirmed that his finger was not on the trigger. He was not DQed but I don't know if they let him continue with that gun.

2. Me. Insert .22 lr into chamber of S&W M41. Drop slide Bang into leg of bench. I have the empty case with no mark on the rim to remind me that Things Happen. Another reason besides protecting your extractor not to drop the slide on a round in the chamber.

[Peally]

Only ever heard of them on guns people have royally fucked with, or when people ND. Never seen one in person that I can recall.


Article was... yeah.
USPSA/IDPA/whoever already has rules that DQ someone immediately for doing something as stupid as sending one over a berm; they're then obviously verboten from participating. The article assumes you can correct stupidity with even more (arbitrary, unenforceable) rules layered on top of those (insert IDPA joke here).

And I'm not going to touch on the "but inexperienced people might emulate you!" argument. Dale Earnhardt made the mechanic crash rob's truck in the other thread so I have to go read that one and don't have time for any more typing.

[Wayne Dobbs]

With modern guns, when somebody says they had a slam fire, you're usually looking at somebody that had a negligent discharge and can't or won't admit it. There are all manner and legion of evil genies and demons out there waiting to crawl into your gun and shoot it, ya know!

[Clobbersaurus]

I have never witnessed a slam fire.

I’ve witnessed one negligent discharge with an AR15 at a carbine course. The round went into the dirt about six inches away from the shooters feet.

[Dagga Boy]

With modern guns, when somebody says they had a slam fire, you're usually looking at somebody that had a negligent discharge and can't or won't admit it. There are all manner and legion of evil genies and demons out there waiting to crawl into your gun and shoot it, ya know!

So, I have investigated one ND case that was an actual stuck firing pin. Seen some suspicious discharges. Several bolt action ones on closing the bolt (mainly with one of my guns that needs the trigger adjusted). It "can happen".

Like Wayne said, ND's during the Load, totally different story. Seen plenty of those. I didn't read Kathy's story in depth, but saw it on Tams Facespace thing. I likely agree with the concept of adjusting the angle of the firearm for the conditions present. I watch all sorts of folks get horribly butt hurt because we require the muzzle below the top of the berm on reloads because of the range facility rules. We abide by it because we love our facility. Because of its amazing location, it is also surrounded by lots of things you do not want a round impacting. A soccer field complex, major tollway, and the amusement park where all the metropolitan area elementary age kids go for school field trips and events. The issue with a "DQ" if you let one off, is it is too late at that point. Anyone hurt with a Round escaping is likely the thing that will result in the range being closed down. It is the oldest club in Dallas. So.....we weigh how critical it is for some to HAVE to do a high muzzle reload, and big picture....learning to adapt is a positive. This also ties in with, you may have to have your muzzle a little lower in a field situation for safety or environmental conditions, so it is good to learn.

[Redhat]

So, I have investigated one ND case that was an actual stuck firing pin. Seen some suspicious discharges. Several bolt action ones on closing the bolt (mainly with one of my guns that needs the trigger adjusted). It "can happen".

Like Wayne said, ND's during the Load, totally different story. Seen plenty of those. I didn't read Kathy's story in depth, but saw it on Tams Facespace thing. I likely agree with the concept of adjusting the angle of the firearm for the conditions present. I watch all sorts of folks get horribly butt hurt because we require the muzzle below the top of the berm on reloads because of the range facility rules. We abide by it because we love our facility. Because of its amazing location, it is also surrounded by lots of things you do not want a round impacting. A soccer field complex, major tollway, and the amusement park where all the metropolitan area elementary age kids go for school field trips and events. The issue with a "DQ" if you let one off, is it is too late at that point. Anyone hurt with a Round escaping is likely the thing that will result in the range being closed down. It is the oldest club in Dallas. So.....we weigh how critical it is for some to HAVE to do a high muzzle reload, and big picture....learning to adapt is a positive. This also ties in with, you may have to have your muzzle a little lower in a field situation for safety or environmental conditions, so it is good to learn.

Well your interfering with their "work space" causing training scars and such ya know. I had the same issues at a range I worked at when we told some hi-speed types the muzzle had to remain level and down range at ALL times.

So at your facility, how do you teach it?

FWIW, I've never seen one with the M9 in about 15 years on the range...I did hear a rumor about one but it was never confirmed.