Slam Fire, Muzzle Direction on Reload

[Doc_Glock]

I had some interesting reading on the KR training blog today, which led me to Kathy Jackson's (@Pax) blog. The discussion was about muzzle direction during reloads. Kathy argued that keeping the pistol pointing into the berm is inherently safer in case of a discharge during the reload, and cited many occurrences of slam fire as one of the reasons for this safety. Karl demonstrated there wasn't really any time penalty for doing so.


"There are far more instances where a gun fires upon slide forward (eg, “slam fire”) than I thought, and many instances where people in a hurry or new to the gun suffer a sympathetic squeeze reaction and fire the gun when they intend to either drop a slide or release a magazine. In most of these cases, the only thing that prevented serious injury or death was that the user fortuitously (sometimes deliberately, but more often fortuitously) pointed the gun in a safe direction."

I am not so much interested in arguing about muzzle direction during reloads, although it is fine if the thread heads that direction. I am interested in how much or how often folks have seen slam fires with pistols? I never have. Is this a thing in gamer set ups?

[BaiHu]

Never.

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[iWander]

Never unless finger was on the trigger and I've only seen two of those. That's in 17 years of teaching cops on the range and 7 years worth of teaching concealed carry classes

[psalms144.1]

I've never seen nor heard of a "slam fire" simply from allowing the slide to go forward after a reload, that's after 12 years teaching firearms in the Army, and 16 years as a LE firearms instructor.

[Sal Picante]

I am not so much interested in arguing about muzzle direction during reloads, although it is fine if the thread heads that direction. I am interested in how much or how often folks have seen slam fires with pistols? I never have. Is this a thing in gamer set ups?

Never seen a slam fire.

I've seen (several) people ND during a reload due to poor trigger-discipline.

This is WAY bigger of an issue than slam fire...

[Doc_Glock]

I think any slam fire in a striker fired pistol would be due to a stuck, protruding striker and would also cause the pistol to go cyclic.

[Lon]

Never seen a slam fire.

I've seen (several) people ND during a reload due to poor trigger-discipline.

This is WAY bigger of an issue than slam fire...

This. I had one years ago. 2011 Limited gun w a light trigger. Indoor range. Slammed new mag in and had my finger on the trigger. Round hit the baffles in the ceiling. Since then I’m very paranoid about finger placement during reloads.

[Cory]

I've seen it a few times (maybe 3 or 4) with seriously worn (extremely high round count, over cleaned, under inspected) military weapons. Most notably with a 249, which is actually designed to fire every time the bolt goes home. The one 249 that comes to mind was somehow broken in such a way that the bolt couldn't get locked to rear properly. Every time you tried to do so resulted in a round firing. After a SPC was chewed out for a ND on a range, a senior NCO went to show him how it's done and did the exact same thing. After the weapon had it's 3rd repeat performance it was cleared, removed from the line, and we went on to business as usual. The SPC caught some flak about it until the senior NCO cleared up what happened later that day. The exact details about the breakage were never explained.

In modern pistols, without parts breakage or after market "tuned" triggers I think it's pretty unlikely. I don't think it's impossible. With the QA/QC of some manufacturers it wouldn't surprise me.

-Cory

[GJM]

I have had the striker release on a PPQ, from the force of the new magazine going home. The firing pin block prevented a discharge, but I could see how a round could discharge if that safety failed. I am also aware of someone who let off a round reaching for the paddle release on an HK VP9, and numerous instances of people getting a finger on the trigger during a reload, and discharging a round.

I want the muzzle level during the reload as it is more efficient, so a round would not go over a berm. This is a screenshot as the magazine is inserted.

[nate89]

The only time I have ever seen it was with a 'modified' 1911 that the user had royally screwed up the sear/hammer/etc. such that using the slide release would cause the hammer to fall. That is the only time I have seen a 'slam-fire' first person.