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Thread: Negative effects of Fireclean?

  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by runcible View Post
    Quite a large many of those carry substances that are not beneficial to inhale when aerosolized or vaporized, to absorb through the skin via direct contact, or to ingest by accident during firing or through secondary contamination.
    How do those substances compare to the ones already present in the priming compounds and powder?

  2. #52
    You're not wrong at all, JV; and the Norwegian military's experience regarding that same wasn't that long ago. What I'd offer is that when dealing with something unavoidable but unhealthy, less is better than more.

    I run ranges and conduct training in poorly ventilated indoor ranges, and all that goes with that can't be avoided; but I can reduce the other things that I'm exposed to, and I can do my best to avoid bringing any of that home to contaminate my living space.
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  3. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by runcible View Post
    What I'd offer is that when dealing with something unavoidable but unhealthy, less is better than more.
    I don't disagree with that.

    But I don't seek out 'non toxic' lubes for my guns as if it's something more than a marketing line. Once that stuff mixes with shot residue, it's toxic. I tend to worry more about exposure to it while cleaning my guns more than while shooting, but I shoot in well ventilated ranges. Wearing gloves while cleaning guns is my first choice.

  4. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by runcible View Post
    Re: Fireclean; https://patents.google.com/patent/CA2867869A1/en

    Re: FrogLube; http://www.tracklubeplus.com/ one might compare the descriptors.

    It should be mentioned, that outside of austere environments it is not ideal to use automotive fluids to clean nor lubricate firearms. Quite a large many of those carry substances that are not beneficial to inhale when aerosolized or vaporized, to absorb through the skin via direct contact, or to ingest by accident during firing or through secondary contamination.
    This is broadly only true with lubricants that have been contaminated with combustion byproducts. Gasoline has a ton of long chain hydrocarbons that are really nasty when burned.
    Last edited by Aray; 01-15-2019 at 10:36 PM.
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  5. #55
    Pizzagun Dilettante Joe in PNG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aray View Post
    This is broadly only true with lubricants that have been contaminated with combustion byproducts. Gasoline has a ton of long chain hydrocarbons that are really nasty when burned.
    So, Mobil 1 fresh from the bottle should be fine, but using your waste oil after an oil change is not such a good idea then?
    "You win 100% of the fights you avoid. If you're not there when it happens, you don't lose." - William Aprill
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  6. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aray View Post
    Don't use lubricants with Chlorinated Esters, like Militech-1 (at least it used to) because of chloride stress corrosion causing cracks in metal.
    I've wondered to what extent that situation is responsible for anecdotes about AR-pattern guns that were cleaned and lubed regularly breaking parts, while AR-pattern guns that were pretty much just used kept running and running.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aray View Post
    Don't leave food safe lubricants on guns for any significant period of time unless you want to clean the sticky oxidized crap off of said guns.
    I haven't noticed this stuff having issues. Other than the fact that it's grease-not-oil, are you aware of the SFL-0 and SFL-1 being problematic long term?

    https://www.lubriplate.com/Products/...de-Grease.html

    Quote Originally Posted by Aray View Post
    I don't like grease on guns.
    I am happier with plenty of oil on my Sigs than with grease.
    Last edited by OlongJohnson; 01-16-2019 at 05:40 PM.
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  7. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joe in PNG View Post
    So, Mobil 1 fresh from the bottle should be fine, but using your waste oil after an oil change is not such a good idea then?
    I can agree with that.
    Hokey religions and ancient lubricants are no match for a good Group IV PAO

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  8. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by OlongJohnson View Post
    https://www.exxonmobil.com/sds



    I've wondered to what extent that situation is responsible for anecdotes about AR-pattern guns that were cleaned and lubed regularly breaking parts, while AR-pattern guns that were pretty much just used kept running and running.



    I haven't noticed this stuff having issues. Other than the fact that it's grease-not-oil, are you aware of the SFL-0 and SFL-1 being problematic long term?

    https://www.lubriplate.com/Products/...de-Grease.html



    I am happier with plenty of oil on my Sigs than with grease.
    Iím lumping Food Grade and ďNon-ToxicĒ together, they arenít always grease. The base stocks used in these oxidize more rapidly than the petroleum or synthetic base stocks.

    I recommend against grease partly because it needs to be removed and reapplied more often than most think.
    Hokey religions and ancient lubricants are no match for a good Group IV PAO

    Owner 360 Performance Shooting

  9. #59
    Old man yelling at cloud OlongJohnson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aray View Post
    Iím lumping Food Grade and ďNon-ToxicĒ together, they arenít always grease. The base stocks used in these oxidize more rapidly than the petroleum or synthetic base stocks.

    I recommend against grease partly because it needs to be removed and reapplied more often than most think.
    Lubriplate SFL-series grease is synthetic:
    synthetic based grease and the aluminum complex soap thickener
    They also have a series of oils:

    https://www.lubriplate.com/Products/...AW-Series.html

    FMO-AW Series
    Multi-Purpose, Food Grade USP White Mineral Oils

    These super multi-purpose, anti-wear fortified, USP White mineral oil based lubricants are manufactured in ten ISO grades for a wide variety of applications. NOTE: FMO-350AW is also available in a red and orange color which helps in leak detection. The original FMO Series products without the anti-wear additive system are still available. FMO-1100AW and FMO-2400AW pass 12 stages of the FZG test.
    Is "USP White mineral oil" the rapidly-oxidizing stuff, or is it petroleum-based?

    I am on board with the remove/reapply when it comes to slide rails. It seems to me that grease takes the abrasives and makes a lapping slurry out of it, to whatever extent it remains in the areas where stuff is sliding back and forth. Cleaning the bulk of it to reset on the abrasive accumulation is more work than wiping out oil. Much easier to keep freshly applying oil in reasonably generous quantities and let it flush the abrasives away from where things slide. It wicks back into slots and channels between cycles. Wipe it off the outside as needed between cleanings.

    I know that in the past, you have posted extensively. Is there any particular thread or post where you've done a big brain dump that I could read and stop asking stupid questions?
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  10. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by OlongJohnson View Post
    Lubriplate SFL-series grease is synthetic:


    They also have a series of oils:

    https://www.lubriplate.com/Products/...AW-Series.html



    Is "USP White mineral oil" the rapidly-oxidizing stuff, or is it petroleum-based?

    I am on board with the remove/reapply when it comes to slide rails. It seems to me that grease takes the abrasives and makes a lapping slurry out of it, to whatever extent it remains in the areas where stuff is sliding back and forth. Cleaning the bulk of it to reset on the abrasive accumulation is more work than wiping out oil. Much easier to keep freshly applying oil in reasonably generous quantities and let it flush the abrasives away from where things slide. It wicks back into slots and channels between cycles. Wipe it off the outside as needed between cleanings.

    I know that in the past, you have posted extensively. Is there any particular thread or post where you've done a big brain dump that I could read and stop asking stupid questions?
    I looked around and couldn't find the threads where I got ranty in the past.

    Short version, yes turning grease into lapping compound can be a thing, and not a great thing.

    Grease is usually a metal soap binder (like lithium) and an oil. Grease must separate or "bleed" to actually lubricate. The lower the viscosity (NGLI rating) the more it bleeds. The oil that bleeds from the binder is just as susceptible to the bad things that happen to bottled lubes, it will go away. The longer the grease is in place, the more it bleeds or separates. At some point there is not a lot of oil left in the binder, and you just have binder, which is a crappy lubricant. If you have grease in a CV joint boot on your car, the oil and binder get mixed up every time the car moves, they are also contained inside that sealed boot, so the grease lasts a really long time. Not so much, when the grease is exposed to atmosphere 24/7.
    Hokey religions and ancient lubricants are no match for a good Group IV PAO

    Owner 360 Performance Shooting

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