Thanks for your reply and your perspective Sean.
Thanks for your reply and your perspective Sean.
There is so much truth in this statement.Originally Posted by Sean M
A little perspective, I spent 4 years in medical school in Tom Given's old stomping ground of Memphis, TN. As Tom has alluded to before, Memphis and the surrounding area has quite the gun and knife club. That was followed by 6 years in a surgical residency at the busiest Lvl I trauma program in Florida. During that 6 years we where in house covering trauma every other or every 3rd night for the whole residency. So I have operated on my fair share of non-military GSW's.
I have seen people die from a single GSW to the heart from a 22LR handgun round and saved people with a GSW to the heart from a 223 rifle. I have also seen people survive what would seem to be a barrage of rounds, and then seen others succumb to single round that manged to hit just the wrong structure. Doesn't fit into the convenient ballistic models we wish to cram them into.
Now that doesn't mean we should ignore what we have learned and certainly the advances in modern JHP rounds but as Sean alluded to, don't expect them to be a magic pill.
I don't think I came here asking for a magic bullet. I do think there's a better way to choose a self defense ammunition than just taking what ever box the counter guy hands you. In fact that seem like an environment ripe for ending up with 2 or 3 boxes of five dollar around exploding, nukulear tipped, Black Talon's.
I think Doc's list is a good idea. I think looking at what my local PD issues is a good idea. I think asking Kathy Jackson was a good idea and I think that deciding on regular 124 grain Gold Dots as opposed to 124 grain + P Gold Dots because I saw some data that suggested that + P didn't change much out of a Glock 19 was also a good idea.
None of that means that I done get training when I can and practice what I was trained on when I can
Good post.
Absent good input from threads like Docs List on PF, noobs like me would end up buying 20 round boxes of RIP at Gander Mountain for $35.
If you like threads like this, type that topic into Google. You’ll be in best bullet discussion heaven.
You can get much more of what you want with a kind word and a gun, than with a kind word alone.
As further evidence to points 1&2, we had a teenager shot at point-blank range with a 9mm pistol right in his anterior neck (i.e. right above the adam's apple). The bullet hit his spine, traveled inferiorly and laterally until it exited his left shoulder blade. Miraculously he had no significant bleeding, but definitely was never going to walk or breathe unassisted ever again.
That said, I definitely still won't be buying Winchester... their bullets are probably fine, but their QC is definitely not.
On my first overnight in the ER I also saw my first 2 GSWs. First guy came in with 1x centerfire pistol GSW about 5cm above his R. nipple. He was in full arrest on arrival, saw my first thoracotomy + trauma code; got ROSC with intracardiac epi but died in the OR.
2nd GSW came in 30 minutes later, 1x centerfire pistol GSW about 7cm below his R nipple, just at the costal margin. Aside from the pain, he was totally fine. Hemodynamically intact, negative FAST exam. Surgery determined he was a non-op case. Admitted to floor, d/c'd 24h later.
Definitely a very starkly contrasting pair for my first exposure to gunshot wounds.
Last edited by Nephrology; 10-23-2017 at 09:25 AM.
Being in police work and being part of the committee that decides on what we carry I have looked at allot of info on ammo, shootings as well as sharing info from other agencies and that is how I (we) do it in southwestern Ohio. I can say to the original poster that I am not a huge fan with the Hornady Critical Defense ammo. Now, their critical duty ammo does a fabulous job on vehicle doors and windows. Just ask me how I know... btw, we carry the HST 147 grain round for duty. The new Speer G2 round is also having favorable results as well in my area.
I chronographed some XM9001 through my old G2 G19 over a year ago. 1221 fps avg and 1241 fps from a G2 G17. 9BPLE did 1258 fps from the G19. To me, not enough difference to worry about. I would carry either with confidence for SD if it was all I had available.
This is what I've been doing, with the exception of 1K round cases, since I found Doc's stuff online probably 12 years ago. Before that I was carrying (what I think was) the old Winchester 147 FBI load. It was reliable and accurate, but that bullet sucked. I started with 124+p Gold Dots and have since moved to 147 HST.
I went to 147 HST because 1) I shoot it better than the 124+p, 2) I think it's more reliable in my little pistols, 3) It's cheaper and was easier to find than Gold Dots
Good carry ammo is cheaper and more plentiful now than it's ever been. For most of the past two decades good carry ammo has been scarce and expensive. I would get on notification lists and see Gold Dots and HSTs come in once a year maybe, and sell out in a few minutes. Stack it deep while the gettin' is good.
Well from reading this, its patently obvious that GSW#1 was a 45 and GSW#2 was a 9mm...
Welcome to Africa, bring a hardhat.
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