Duty rifle purchasing help

[Failure2Stop]

Might be worth getting in touch with Jack Leuba, AKA @Failure2Stop, and see if KAC has anything to offer? The SR-16 CQB Mod 2 is suppose to be pretty sweet.

Thanks for the heads up amigo.

PM sent to OP.

[willie]

Sometimes during agency purchasing, input from uninformed higher ranking persons influences selection. Texas issues Bushmasters to its various l.e. groups. Some municipal p.d.'s followed their lead. I hope that the op's process will be free of this type interference where the misinformed have clout.

[SeriousStudent]

Sionics Weapon Systems make an excellent rifle.

They also have an 11" barrel with a Reduced Gas Port that runs with/without a suppressor with MilSpec ammo.

http://sionicsweaponsystems.com/store2015/

tp

I have one of these. It runs like the badass machine that it is, with an AAC M4-2000 can. Bolt locks back on the last round when suppressed or unsuppressed.

I'd be very happy with an 11.5" BCM, Colt, KAC, or Sionics SBR.

[HCM]

Sometimes during agency purchasing, input from uninformed higher ranking persons influences selection. Texas issues Bushmasters to its various l.e. groups. Some municipal p.d.'s followed their lead. I hope that the op's process will be free of this type interference where the misinformed have clout.

The Texas DPS Bushmasters, like the DOJ contract RRA's are made to the proper TDP standard unlike their regular production guns. Many local TX agencies buy guns and ammo off the state contract for financial reasons or because they rely on the State's testing to select decent quality gear because lack the resources to conduct proper testing. There are also some who buy what DPS buys because the Sheriff, Captain, Chief etc is former DPS but there is certainly worse gear being purchased for worse reasons.

BTW TX DPS is somewhere in the process of testing and selecting new rifles.

[TCB]

I just did a vehicle tactics class and brought both a 11.5” & a 14.5” Rifle...the 14.5” was fine but the 11.5” excelled in and around cars. My Agency issues 14.5” M-4A1’s to line Agents but I’ve seen a few of the short uppers we are supposed to be converteing to (11.5” BCM w what looked like 9 or 10” MMR forearms, Troy flip up sights), for a work gun I really can’t think of a better choice. 11.5” seems to be the sweet spot for unsuppressed or suppressed rifles, they handle very well and I think retain enough muzzle velocity for most domestic LE, I’ve made hits out to 300 yards with mine on USPSA size steel targets without any hold over. As for brand? Colt or BCM from my experience...either company can make a lemon but their CS is great and they don’t really stray from the TDP.

[willie]

HCM, thanks for clarifying about Texas Bushmasters being made to TDP standards. Does this fact mean that Bushmaster paid royalties to Colt for permission to use their data package?

With AR discussions at this level, I'm not qualified to comment beyond saying that Colt's production offerings should meet needs of most l.e. agencies. That's an opinion based on library type study and not experience. I'll be honest and say that my formal AR training was poor, and since then I've burned up a lot of ammo shooting rocks, stumps, and dirt clods. Hence I'll cease writing.

[ASH556]

If suppressors are in the plans now or later, I would want something other than a 6933 due to its lightweight barrel profile. Check with Sionics. I've taken their armorer class twice now (every 3 years to keep the cert current) and spoken extensively with the owner, Josh. These guys know what they're talking about and are passionate about getting quality equipment in the hands of LEO's at good prices.

As far as 10.3/5 vs 11.5, a correctly-gased 10.3/5" gun will run reliably suppressed and un-suppressed. The 0.070 crane-spec'd gas port is the key. My personal gun is built on a Colt SOCOM barrel cut to 10.3 and ported at .070. The heavier barrel profile mitigates flex/POI shift and also handles heat better.

[HCM]

HCM, thanks for clarifying about Texas Bushmasters being made to TDP standards. Does this fact mean that Bushmaster paid royalties to Colt for permission to use their data package?

With AR discussions at this level, I'm not qualified to comment beyond saying that Colt's production offerings should meet needs of most l.e. agencies. That's an opinion based on library type study and not experience. I'll be honest and say that my formal AR training was poor, and since then I've burned up a lot of ammo shooting rocks, stumps, and dirt clods. Hence I'll cease writing.

No idea on royalties but the TX BM's were made to the specs of the TX state contract which were taken directly from the TDP. Same for the RRA guns made to the FBI spec, which was also derived from the TDP. I believe RRA calls theirs the Government model.

This is where Colt has the edge for an individual purchase. The issue is the BM or RRA rifle you buy at retail is not built to the same standard as their govt contract rifles. Like buying a Walmart Remington 870 express vs buying an 870 Police where as standard Colts (6920, 6720 etc) are all built to the same standard and have the same QC checks.

[Wayne Dobbs]

I’m looking for advice on procurement of approximately 25 new SBR’s for my unit. I’ve gotten the green light to begin the process but there is no decent guidance or process in place. Basically, the decisions makers know we need/want new rifles and they are willing to purchase. The rest has been left up to me and I’m not up to speed on where to begin.

We just went through this process for pistols within the last year. SIG was the winner mostly because they were willing to offer up a couple demo P320’s for us to T&E and that’s all it took. Glock and HK reps didn’t answer the bell for the modest 50 unit request.

I’ve been told to try to acquire rifles for T&E. For guys and gals that have been down this road before, any advise on where to begin? Should I just contact the manufacture LE sales reps for our area or are there companies set up to handle the process. We will be trading our current AR’s.

My unit does entry/warrant duty exclusively and we need/want SBR’s in 5.56. Factory complete guns only, not going to approve anything else. We will only equip them with slings, WML’s and Eotech XPS2’s

My two choices so far:

Colt LE6946CQB 10.3”
HK 416 10.4”

Any advice is welcome and needed. This procurement process is not my area of expertise but I’ve volunteered to take it on knowing that if I don’t, it won’t get done any time soon. Please PM me if you don't want to reply in an open thread. Thanks.

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[Grizzly21]

If youre still in NC contact Barnes Precision Machine in Apex. Hes getting a lot of business locally...SHP RRT is running his 11 inch uppers now and they swear by them. They also have the option for suppressors. FWIW, they are putting thousands of rounds through them with no issues.

I just recently tested several Barnes M4 rifles with various barrel lengths in 5.56 and 7.62(7.5" to 20" barrels) and all performed flawlessly. A local agency in NC is looking at new SBRs for their SWAT team and the 11.5" Barnes rifle was at the top of the list. I have a personal Barnes 16" barrel M4 and the gun works flawlessly and is very accurate.