Holsters for carrying concealed - for civilian and off-duty cops (unless dictated by policy) - should serve one main purpose: keep the trigger guard covered. The holster should offer enough passive retention that your gun won't fall out if you reach down to tie a shoe. That said, its not a bad idea to learn to protect your gun from being taken away and carry a nice CQB blade on support side if attacked on strong side and can't get to your pistol.
For a large majority of us retention is a technique, not a device.
I'd also consider that Mas may be quite cautious on video given his frequency in court as an expert witness. The same goes for lots of folks. That doesn't mean bend their words to suit your preferences but perhaps hold back on the pitchforks and reach out. I've not had a single SME refuse clarification on things like this, ever, customer or not.
Think for yourself. Question authority.
I believe the study he comments about, was in regards to LE in plain clothes or off duty. I suspect they are in different situations than the typical concealed carrier.
Here are a couple of other data points...
High Noon Holsters at FAQ #25 https://www.highnoonholsters.com/faqs
A video from the late Paul Gomez on choosing concealed carry gear. He preferred leather for holsters, though open top models, over kydex for their retention advantage. He also preferred kydex for mag pouches because he can usually adjust the tension for greater security.We like open top holsters better than thumbreaks. They are quicker on the draw and quicker to reholster. The straps on the thumbreak always seem to get in the way on the redraw. Take note here, the danger of an unintended discharge when a strap gets caught in the trigger guard is a real one, and by no means limited to a certain gun. Any weapon can have an unintended discharge if you are not careful.
It is also harder to practice drawing with a thumbreak holster than an open top. People that have open tops seem to practice more, because it is a lot easier. For most people that have a concealed carry permit, open top is the way to go. It is just simpler, nothing to worry about except drawing. Most people are not going in harm's way, you are avoiding it, and so, a thumbreak holster is not needed. Law enforcement is a different story. Some departments mandate a thumbreak off duty holster. However, it can be difficult to try and hand cuff someone if you cannot reholster.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DF7VbYh9Qqk
This got me wondering... I have occasionally seen emphasis on being able to reholster quickly and without looking as an important skill for the average civilian who carries. This was emphasized in a class I took earlier this year.Originally Posted by JTQ
Now, I understand how that could be important for professionals (military/LE), and I definitely understand the benefits of holsters that don't collapse after drawing... but I can't think of a situation where someone like me would need to reholster fast and without even a glance at the holster. If I'm in such a high threat situation that I had to draw it "for real" in the first place, I won't be reholstering until it's over and the threat is gone, and by then I may well need my eyes and other hand due to the massive adrenaline dump. If I'm not in such a situation, safety and prudence says "use your eyes and take your time".
Am I missing something?
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Here is an article on an incident with a worn leather holser causing an ND.
http://www.itstactical.com/wp-conten...er-ad-nd-1.jpg
Last edited by LorenzoS; 10-16-2017 at 09:49 AM.
I do not think you are.
There are lots of LE contexts where getting holstered quickly could be very important.
Most of the regular dude scenarios I can think of where that might be important are as a result of drawing the gun when one shouldn't have in the first place. This is a really good reason to carry intermediate force options like OC spray; it can help eliminate the thought of needing to go all the way to the gun in a grey-area situation.
You are not missing a thing. Re-holstering - especially in the age of striker-fired weapons - has proven to be one of the most dangerous things a police officer does; I venture to say this includes civilians. The next most dangerous thing may be drawing. There is a rule of thumb on the street: if you can't look at down at your holster when re-holstering, you're re-holstering too soon. (Translation: threat potential still exists.)
Sorry to be late to the party, but I thought I'd be in a position to add to the discussion.
The original poster included a link to a video I did a decade ago with Tom Gresham for Personal Defense TV (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HlJU...ature=youtu.be ) If you listen carefully to the first few seconds of the 3-to-4-minute video, Tom had framed the question for the many new CCW folks who would predictably be in the audience for that particular show.
I concur with those here who feel that technique is the most important element of weapon retention. However, by definition, new concealed carriers are among the least likely to have been trained in those techniques. A retention holster is the quickest, easiest "early fix" to that element of carrying a loaded handgun in public.
I also concur with the belief that concealment is a level of retention (or perhaps, prevention), but it is only one level and, as explained in the video clip, it's a fallacy to believe that it will always eliminate the chance of a struggle for the Good Guy's gun.
Here at P-F, we have a density of members highly trained in combatives including disarming and weapon retention, which would be hard to match in any population. THAT video was not geared for THIS highly-trained audience.
I have long taught (and still teach) that weapon retention is a multi-layered discipline. Awareness first, of course...but none of us lives in condition red, and that's all the more true of the new CCW-er. Even those of us who have been extensively trained in retention may be unable to employ our techniques if we have been cold-cocked or our hands are tied up on Perp 1 when Perp 2 grabs at our holstered weapon from behind. I have known more than a couple of formidable fighters in blue who lost their guns. One dropped his guard for just a moment, and the suspect who caught him by surprise got his gun out of its holster; this cop's backup Detective Special was deployed in time to bring things to a satisfactory conclusion. I knew a rugged national champion shooter who was cold-cocked by a suspect who fractured his skull with a blunt object and dropped him unconscious from behind in the police station, and then went for the officer's S&W Model 29. Witnesses said the guy was tugging so hard on the .44 in his Bianchi B27 holster that he lifted the unconscious cop up off the floor, but the holster didn't yield the gun. Responding officers took care of business, and the officer lived to become chief of police in a good-sized city. One of the physically strongest cops I ever knew was walking on foot patrol when the lights went out for him. He woke up face down next to the bloody 2X4 that had put a big knot on the back of his head, and with an empty non-retention holster; the man who dropped and disarmed him just happened to choose not to murder him with his own gun. These and many other cases made me a believer in retention holsters.
I'm not a new carrier but I don't consider myself to be anywhere near THIS highly-trained audience either. The retention training I've had working as an armed guard was remedial at best and assumed a level 2 retention holster.
I'm not sure I'm going to communicate this properly but I believe that one one the best things that ever happened to me was 4 separate instances where I ran into tweakers who knew I was armed and (I am absolutely convinced were setting me up to steal my gun) I learned that it was for real and I dealt with all 4 situations without having to shoot anyone. That said I need more training and I haven't totally given up on the retention holster Idea
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