For those who shoot RMR's I need help correcting an issue please.

[SC_Dave]

To second voodoo and many others thinking probly the same thing...dry fire is the key here. Yes you can achieve some sort of menial success and mental accomplishment by going to the range and practicing slow and improving incrementally but the real issue is the presentation, which can only be fixed by hundreds if not thousands of dry fire draws and/or press outs.

I had a similar issue when I first started with a slide mounted RDS on a glock 19.4. The issue is the grip itself, glocks inherently point high and this is only exaggerated by the RDS, it is happening with irons also you might not notice it as much. (Once again not new info really)

My advice is to remain target focused, practice slow on close targets (3 yards or closer) draw and present gun, don’t press out and fish for dot, learn to draw while focusing on target and learn to superimpose dot on target. Some people advocate the slight raising of the gun during the press out, sort of at an angle instead of a straight press out. (Travis Haley) I don’t think this technique is needed for everyone. This takes time, some people adapt to it sooner than others. I think it is directly proportionate to the amount of reps you have with irons. I adapted fairly quickly, within 100 press outs or so my dot was appearing in the window every time. I was also a fairly new shooter, had been shooting pistol for less than 2 years. I’m 15k rounds deep into my fauxland special and loving it. The RDS really made pistol shooting fun, and helped me overcome many challenges I had early on.
Hope this some of this helps! Be safe, train hard!

P.S. - muscle memory or neural pathways, however you want to word it translates to one thing = reps. Reps matter and are the best solution short of changing platforms. Which I suppose you could do if money was not an issue, for me I had invested too much to change platforms.


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My thoughts are that I try to be especially upright in my posture with the dot, and bring the dot to me rather than hunch. I also use the frame of the lens to center the display, rather than try to draw to the dot.

GJM and Seth,
I tried the method Travis mention and as you mentioned it's not for everyone. I did some dry fire reps and that, along with the lowering my head a bit has helped. I'm not there yet but it is not as bad as last week. Also to clarify, I'm all about being upright. When I say I'm dropping my head a little, it's very little and it's head only, not hunched backed. I'm ugly enough I don't need to look like the Hunch Back of ND. It also did something else for me. I wear transitional lenses and it helped me to be more clearly target focused because I'm now looking more through the top (distant) part of the lens.

I have a GFA and thought about putting it on to see if it helped. I had it on before but it seemed gimmicky to me and took it off before I got use to it.

Thanks guys

[SC_Dave]

Not sure how I double posted this......

[Seth_yg]

Yeah give the grip force adapter a try, some guys swear by them. I just liked it better than adding a full beavertail backstrap to the 19.4 as I already have small hands. I like the feel with a beavertail on the gun it gives me a better “lockup” with my strong hand out of the holster than the stock glock grip. The GFA had the added benefit for me of changing the presentation ever so slightly. I didn’t have issues finding my dot before I used it but it did appear lower in the window and I was faster on the draw after I added it. Went from 1.05 down to the .90 range in the A zone at 7 yards out of the holster.

Sorry my pic doesn’t show it with the GFA on it, I added it after I took that pic. It was kinda loose and actually came off once during a match (I think because I removed a little material in the tang when I stippled the grip). Later I stippled the GFA permanently to the grip, and well...the frame isn’t exactly instagram worthy now, haha looks like shit but does the job!


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[GJM]

Here is my first run at the Vickers 6/6/6 drill this afternoon with my Walther Q5 and DP Pro. You can see my stance which is pretty upright.

[Ballistic_RT]

FWIW I noticed this issue with glocks well before I ever had an RMR. It corrected over time with irons as my body compensated. When I went to an RMR I experienced the issue again. I determined that what is was is the RMR just shows the issue exponentially more. If you were to take the handgun and present it with the dot perfectly centered, and then slowly cant the muzzle upward to the point you are seeing the dot on your normal presentation at speed, I would be that the irons arent too terribly shifted. The dot just takes that shift and magnifies how it is presented to you. Repetitions are the only way I know of to fix this issue apart from a grip modification or a platform change. When moving to a firearm that has a more 1911esq grip angle I do not notice the high dot presentation in the window, nor do those new to the RMR as a whole from my own data collection. Hopefully what I am relaying makes sense. One of the great things about the RMR is that it is a really good self diagnostics tool in your form and fundamentals. It gives instant feedback.

[Grey]

Just wanted to add my 2 cents. When I first started out with my RMR (been like 2 weeks...ahahah) I was constantly having to hunt for the dot.

The RMR really does give instant feedback on how your grip and presentation is. I know if I have a good grip and presentation as the dot is right where it needs to be.

Reps, reps, reps, reps. I just put out 10 reps every few minutes when I am on the computer. I have noticed it getting better and better day by day.

Keep at it!

[Tawadc95]

Read an article from Tom McHale the other day on this very subject...he said it is the normal tendency to hunt for the dot which makes it illusive when beginning.

His remedy was the same as you would for iron sights, hard focus on the target and the dot starts to appear where you are looking.

[GJM]

I felt like shooting my 17 MOS/DP Pro some, and have been the last week or so. Had a .49 draw to an A at 7 yards today, which is a PR for me. The grip angle doesn’t seem to be holding me back.

[VegasHK]

The only difference between a red dot and iron sights, is the red dot requires a more precise index, where iron sights allow you to get away with more imperfections in your index. In that way, the red dot is a fantastic training aid in improving index (and trigger control). Solving the dot presentation issue will improve your iron sight index as well.

I notice this as well. When I do a significant amount of training with my 19 with an RMR running a plate rack, or shooting very fast drills, then switch back to my iron sighted 34, I pick up my front sight much quicker. It does not seem to translate the other way. I believe the RMR forced me to make perfect presentations, the irons do not. It’s a phenomenon I have definitely noticed. Apparently I’m not the only one.