Have you ever had to pull a weapon

[Glenn E. Meyer]

Good points on the 'coward' prose. One thing I learned from 'tactics' classes and from my psych background is that people respond emotional and/or cognitively/rationally. The latter is more important. Feeling like a 'coward' is trivial. You need to learn to ignore such manly/dominance challenges to accomplish your end of surviving with the best possible outcome for you. Deal with your feelings later. If you had someone call you names - realize you survived and you were the better person. Yes, you might have 'won' a physical conflict but to what gain if the overall outcomes were worse.

Good classes test you on that. Two example:

1. At the NTI years ago, there was a guy was going to urinate (simulated, thank you) in your gas tank (assume a nonlocked type) to harass you for being in their 'Deliverance' small town. Well, what to do? Get insulted - no, go find the police (who were roll played by real police and folks like Vicki Farnam).

2. KRtraining - on-line in the FedEx, you seemingly cut in in front of a guy on line to send a package. He flips out as he thinks he misses a shipment so his boss will fire him. He is in your face. What to do as he is threatening you but no hands on. Well, talk to him and effusively apologize. Offer to call his boss and take responsibility. The role player told Karl that I was so nice to him that he decided not to continue the altercation. Now, I had my hand on the 'gun' and as I talked to him slowly moved him from in back of me, to having me with a clear path to the door for a run for it.

Did I feel like a coward? No - I could have 'shot' the guy from retention and go to jail maybe (I was in fear of my life - Jury - GUILTY).

So the analysis of 'coward' above was a really good catch. That's why all these kind of classes are good things to take. At Karl's - you are in the house, you hear someone break in. You have a pump shotgun. Do you hunker down - call the cops and call out to the BGs to get out and you are armed. Seems like a plan. Folks new at this - I'm not letting them be in my house and steal my stuff!!! They move into the hallway to save the TV. They DIE!

[Nephrology]

Sounds like you got a taste of the Crazy that's out there in the world. Trust me, you did the right thing by disengaging. Let professionals take care of people like that if you have any say in the matter at all.

edit: some people can be reasoned with, but if he was meth intoxicated, that would be actually impossible. Disengage, disengage, disengage.

[45dotACP]

With respect,
If you feel like a coward because you didn't cap some random dude solely on the reasoning that you didn't have a gun on you, and your kids weren't around, I suspect you need to re-evaluate your paradigms concerning bravery.

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk

[Joe in PNG]

With respect,
If you feel like a coward because you didn't cap some random dude solely on the reasoning that you didn't have a gun on you, and your kids weren't around, I suspect you need to re-evaluate your paradigms concerning bravery.

I wouldn't be too hard on him- far too much of the gun based internet would happily call one a coward because one didn't cap some random criminal type dood. That's not being a good Sheepdog!, dog.

Don't forget that there's a whole lot of bad and just plain stupid advice out there.

[45dotACP]

Good point. I sometimes forget that PF has spoiled me by presenting rational thought to guns and using them. I don't even internet in many other forums just on account of the derpitude.

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[Cory]

Threads like this pop up frequently on firearm forums. The best reply I ever heard was in 2012 on a state based gun forum I used at the time.

The first was in a bar, I was negotiating with a known bad guy to attempt to purchase more time to repay a debt from a smuggling operation gone bad. He brazenly placed his weapon on the table, pointed it right at me, in plain view of the other bar patrons. I played it cool and very carefully and quietly drew under the table from an OC thigh holster. Just before i was sure he was going to fire, I blasted him to pieces. He slumped down onto the table, quite a mess. It was a tough bar, the music only stopped for a moment, then the band continued on playing the same song as if nothing happened. To this day, some people say he fired first, when we all know he never fired a shot until the story had been retold and retold over the years.

I nearly died of laughter the first time I read it.

-Cory

[blues]

Threads like this pop up frequently on firearm forums. The best reply I ever heard was in 2012 on a state based gun forum I used at the time.



I nearly died of laughter the first time I read it.

-Cory

It was a dark and stormy night...

[Gun Mutt]

Cory...that was fantastic!!! This month's internet bill has justified itself completely!

[Cypher]

The curse of the, “sheep dog”...

The, “sheep dog,” concept isn’t valid. Your only, “job,” or mission as a Civilian Defender is to protect yourself and whoever your charges are (wife, kids, friends, etc.).

In ANY fight you engage in, you have a non-zero chance of dying, AND a non-zero chance of finding yourself in a life-altering/finance destroying legal incursion.

I’ve avoided far more incidents than I’ve ever participated in. If someone thinks that makes me a wuss, then I guess I’m a wuss! But I’m still here.

As the great John Farnam says, “Avoidance, Deterrence and Deescalation!”


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I know this is a little off topic but "Sheep Dogs" have always been a pet peeve of mine

I've never been comfortable with the "Sheep Dog" concept. I mean I understand why Grossman would apply it to the military or first responders but I don't think it has any place in the average permit holder's mindset.

It's been my experience that those who embrace the title are closet authoritarians (I'm referring to citizen permit holders here) who are just looking for a reason to "take charge". People like that scare me.

I don't see it so much anymore but When the Sheep Dog theme was more prevalent there was always that one guy who would post that he intended to step in and "take charge of the situation" in the event of a shooting incident or a robbery or whatever. I always wondered what would happen when he did and got told to screw off.

About 30 years ago in Colorado Springs there was a group of pot bellied old men who called themselves "The Citizen's CB Patrol". They even had signs on their cars. These guys dressed up in black BDUs and "tactical" drop holsters and drove around Colorado Springs in their beater station wagons "reporting suspicious activity" to the police who generally considered them a nuisance. That's where my mind goes when I hear the words "Sheep Dog".

[Trooper224]

Threads like this pop up frequently on firearm forums. The best reply I ever heard was in 2012 on a state based gun forum I used at the time.



I nearly died of laughter the first time I read it.

-Cory

That's what happens when you hang around with a Wookie in a ,"wretched hive of scum and villainy".