Weight is weight, irrespective of caliber. So the ideal (or at least tolerable) weight of a 7.62 mm rifle is no different than that of a 5.56 mm rifle...."What is the general feeling here as far as ideal (or at least tolerable) weight in a 7.62 rifle?"
Facts matter...Feelings Can Lie
Have a DD5V1 set up as a Recce/DMR rifle. Harris bipod on a DD mount, Nightforce NXS 2.5-10x. Shoots MOA or just short of it with good quality ammo. I think the gas port is sized a little generously...might look into adding an adjustable GB as I do plan on running a suppressor eventually. Stout recoil with heavy 168-175gr. match ammo. Had some primer cratering with Hornady Superformance...no more of that stuff.
Haven't shot a lot of 147-150gr. FMJ .308 loads out of it and I don't really plan to. For what I use it for I'm happy.
Shoot more, post less...
I do some .308 stuff.
Here's my advice: unless you have a clear use for the gun, don't do it. They are all costly, and the better ones even more so. The point of diminishing returns hits very fast, and a thousand dollars of investment is very easily required for incremental gain at the levels above hobbyist grade. That said, nothing wrong with being a hobbyist, but the differences between tiers gets crystallized pretty fast.
They aren't just big 5.56 guns, they are a life choice and a bit of a commitment.
People vastly over-state the precision potential of their gasser .308s. 1.2 MOA average is on the low side from what I have seen. Expect 1.5-2 MOA with the stuff made to blow big holes in soft stuff.
From a shooting perspective, I don't recommend going below 8.5lbs naked. They tend to get a little mobile when shooting fast if too light. Unless the main job is to not shoot all that much, in which case I'd recommend saving a bunch of money or gaining a lot of performance by going to a bolt gun.
Last edited by Failure2Stop; 10-16-2017 at 03:13 PM.
Director Of Sales
Knight's Armament Company
Thanks so much, Jack! Your experience and insight are invaluable and this post reaffirms my thought process behind the 16" .308 bolt gun I sold my M&P10 to build.Originally Posted by Failure2Stop
Food Court Apprentice
Semper Paratus certified AR15 armorer
It's a LaRue PredatAR in 7.62. I'm not the PT stud I used to be but it isn't too heavy for me (never weighed it). The optic is on the lighter side of LPV's.
As for true utility... unless a rifle is used to hunt (4 legged or 2 legged critters), isn't it just a range toy? I won't reach for a .308 for home defense as a first choice. But I always wanted a .308 and I have very little love to give bolt action rifles.
The only complaint I have is that I couldn't get it to run with my Silencerco Omega. To be fair, LaRue gave me several suggestions to help and offered to look at it in person. They did say they can only guarantee their rifles to work with their Tranquilo can or Surefire cans.
I had an early SR25 with the Remington 5R barrel and carbon fiber fore end. It ran pretty good and it was a consistent 1.25 to 1.5 inch rifle. I used it in multiple precision rifle classes and learned it's advantage was not having to reload when bolt guns needed reloading. So if you need to shoot a lot of point targets fast, it's awesome. I sold it because at the time I was chasing accuracy.
@Failure2Stop. So do you think the Intermediate Combat Rifle is not a good idea or doesn't make sense with a .308 AR10?
Last edited by DamonL; 10-16-2017 at 08:23 PM.
I really can't get behind the idea of a .308 class rifle being general issue again. I do believe that they have a place but a lot of sacrifices are made when moving to the larger guns when evaluating qualities that are preferable for a general issue combat rifle. For the time being SOCOM has no plans to follow the Army down their latest wormhole.
This discussion got me thinking about what would be an improvement without too much sacrifice. Federal's new wonder cartridge definitely looks interesting. They took 6.8 brass and necked it down to .22 bullet and called it the .224 Valkyrie. If you are thinking that it sounds like 22 nosler you are right, but it is a good cartridge in all the ways that 22 Nosler is not. 22 Nosler chased case capacity to the detriment of everything else. Federal made smart choices, loaded with long, heavy for caliber, high BC bullets and ditched the rebated rim.
They formally announced it today but I am eagerly watching to see how this new cartridge preforms. Federal claims it is supersonic to 1300yds with 90gr SMK. It does that with less drop and drift than 6.5 creedmoor to a 1000. All that from a round that easily fits inside of an AR15 magazine well and half the recoil energy of the creedmore. This might be a way to get the Army their overmatch(this tag phrase is quickly becoming the new "stopping power", and I cringe a little more every time I hear it) without giving up too much handiness or ammo due to increased weight. The round also has better sectional density compared to 5.56 so it will help with penetrating armor.
Last edited by call_me_ski; 10-16-2017 at 11:21 PM.
Despite my dour post, I am actually a big .308 gas gun fan. I love the way it smacks steel out to 800 meters, drops hogs, and at matches makes 5.56 shooters green with envy when a decent .308 shooter beats them at run-n-gun. There are really solid ammunition choices for every application, and while recoil is a factor, my 8 year old can shoot my suppressed APC and keep asking for more.
All of that said, the average line unit kid doesn't receive 1/10th of the instruction that my 8 year old has, and that's only the first problem with widespread use of 7.62. Lots of folks are reading these articles, but failing to see the trees for the forest (yes, that is intentionally reversed). The problem, as far as the program is concerned, is less about shooting and more about piercing armor. The problem, as far as reality is concerned, is that it isn't focused enough on shooting, therefore making armor penetration less relevant. I don't know where the fallacy came from, but 16" 7.62 gas guns are not easier to shoot than 20" gas guns, and 20" gas guns are not easy to shoot well. It takes work, practice, determination, and experience to get to a good place with them.
The other significant problem is carrying ammunition. 7.62 magazines are bulkier, heavier, and less friendly to the average hand than 5.56. Average loadout for 5.56 is 210 rounds, spread over 7 magazines, with one in the gun and six on body. The largest practical .308 magazine is the Magpul 25 rounder, and even with them, you're going to need to cut to 200 rounds in 8 magazines to be anywhere near realistic on-body magazine space. This is a pretty involved topic, and rather than typing out a novel, I'm just going to skip ahead to weight. Those 200 rounds of 7.62 are going to weigh over 10.5 lbs, as opposed to 210 rounds of 5.56 at 4.2-5.9 lbs. Yeah, we can get into lightweight alternate case material, but a project that takes two years to get the weight of the ammunition alone down to where it's not excessive is hard to make the hinge point for an interim program.
That said, there is definitely a place for a 7.62 gun, but it's a specialist/niche material solution that depends on the skill and strength of the individual user to show clear advantage.
Director Of Sales
Knight's Armament Company
I know the M16 replaced the M14 for a reason.
As a firearms enthusiast I know I would like to play with a 7.62 AR again.
My version:
H&K MR762 A1 16"
CIM Tactical rail
H&K slim buttstock
Magpul grip
Geissele trigger
Elcan Spectre DR 1.5x/6x optic
Attachment 20932
"For a moment he felt good about this. A moment or two later he felt bad about feeling good about it. Then he felt good about feeling bad about feeling good about it and, satisfied, drove on into the night."
-- Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy --
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