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Thread: Raw speed

  1. #91
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    My observations agree with Beat's statement. I'm a concealed carry license and do carry. I shoot but do not train. Unfortunately, the majority of others in my category fit my profile. As an aside--one point that the famous Jeff Cooper made was that shooting by one's self is a poor training idea. I never understood this comment until I "trained" on a firing range with 25 other people.

    About police readiness. I fear that worldwide criticism heaped on US police about so called improper shootings may have or will affect cops' mindset about using their weapons as they have been trained. Hesitation could become a universal reason for more police officers dying in the line of duty. Also, I predict that future training manuals with new procedures will be introduced. As soon as they are implemented, new rules of engagement will become policy. I would not be surprised to learn that officers will be advised to retreat from situations that might require use of deadly force. Eventually policy might require this step. As a civilian I decided long ago to retreat if doing so would not cause me or my wife injury. The big obvious difference between my predicament and a police officer's is that he or she was sent there to rescue, prevent, or resolve a serious issue. If he or she decides to retreat, somebody else(me, you, whoever)might be stuck there in one hell of a jam. That's the conundrum here.

  2. #92
    The stress of your target shooting at you can put the brakes on many skills.

  3. #93
    Quote Originally Posted by John J. McCarthy, Jr. View Post
    The stress of your target shooting at you can put the brakes on many skills.
    This could be its own interesting discussion. Do you think it effects everyone equally, only those that are unable to perform their skills at a subconscious level, or something else?
    Likes pretty much everything in every caliber.

  4. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by GJM View Post
    This could be its own interesting discussion. Do you think it effects everyone equally, only those that are unable to perform their skills at a subconscious level, or something else?
    I wouldn't be suprised if some of the pro's best shots were on one of the Big Five bearing down on them.
    “Remember, being healthy is basically just dying as slowly as possible,” Ricky Gervais

  5. #95
    Modding this sack of shit BehindBlueI's's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GJM View Post
    This could be its own interesting discussion. Do you think it effects everyone equally, only those that are unable to perform their skills at a subconscious level, or something else?
    No, much more so, and yes.

  6. #96
    Quote Originally Posted by BehindBlueI's View Post
    No, much more so, and yes.
    I will give you a like for the expanded version of the above.
    Likes pretty much everything in every caliber.

  7. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by GJM View Post
    This could be its own interesting discussion. Do you think it effects everyone equally, only those that are unable to perform their skills at a subconscious level, or something else?
    It does not effect everyone the same, but I don't think it's all about shooting ability. I know a couple of very good shooters who have performed poorly at the moment of truth. I believe it's a mindset thing and being willing more than anything else. Working offensively allows some prior mental processing that being surprised and reacting doesn't. In the end, some people are fighters and others are not. Some are good under pressure and others are not. It goes way beyond technical skill.
    Last edited by LSP552; 09-27-2017 at 08:30 PM. Reason: Spellin

  8. #98
    Quote Originally Posted by GJM View Post
    This could be its own interesting discussion. Do you think it effects everyone equally, only those that are unable to perform their skills at a subconscious level, or something else?
    It has already been a long discussion. You ask a great question, basically the question I believe we all ask ourselves in some way.

    Here is a great article which may answer your question, by way of raising many more. The article is really about what we all want to know, but unfortunately have just one way to find out.

    http://www.handgunsmag.com/tactics-t...pens_gunfight/

  9. #99
    Modding this sack of shit BehindBlueI's's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GJM View Post
    I will give you a like for the expanded version of the above.
    I'm recovering from day 2 of SouthNarc's ECQC, so while I'd probably be willing to do a lengthier version later, here's the down and dirty. Using the lizard/monkey/human brain model as expressed by Rory Miller:

    1) Everyone is not affected equally. This is readily apparent simply by watching videos of robberies, police action shootings, etc. Guys who are standing right next to each other can have wildly different responses. Guy 1 mag dumps 30 rounds while screaming and hits dick. Guy 2 rolls out, fires twice, tags the bad guy. Clerk 1 panics and freezes. Clerk 2 executes a successful gun grab and pummels the shit out of bad guy. This is not unique to fighting, any threat to life you'll see it. Some is likely innate personality and socialization (see 4), some to training, some to experience, and some to mindset. (See 2 and 3)

    2) You only have so much processing power, and I can assure you that not only do you have a ton of info to process when shit's going sideways, your committee of a brain throws out weird stuff. In my shooting my forebrain said "this is just like the simunition training we ran last in-service." On the surface, not useful info. In reality, it's getting lizard brain to trust the training. You just hear the voice in your head, but there's a plan. The more you can execute subconscious, the more you free up your conscious to do things that must be done in real time, such as observe where the bad guy is, where cover is, what friendlies are doing, etc. It's no different if you are an experience SCUBA diver or pilot or whatever. You've practiced for shit to go wrong so you don't execute one step at a time, you just think "do plan A" and execute all the steps. I'm sure as a pilot you know that already, just apply that to fights.

    3) Experience matters. Not only do you need to be able to execute subconsciously but you have to deeply trust the training and skills. If you sorta believe in your skills and training, lizard or monkey may hi-jack the whole damn thing and you fight without your training, possibly without your tools. If you've done it before and survived, or done it in realistic training (lizard doesn't know the difference between a real gun fight and a Simuntion gunfight were the threat of pain is real, even though human does), etc. you'll execute better and faster. Experience comes from real events, realistic training, and vicariously from trusted sources, in descending order of effectiveness. If someone you trust says front sight focus works, then you train under time and pain pressure and see front sight focus works, then you have a real shooting and front sight focus works...you're very unlikely to lose front sight focus when you need it. If you don't REALLY believe in it at that lizard level, and lizard innately wants you to watch the threat because that's what tooth and claw combat is like, then you'll revert to target focus at a much lower level of stress.

    4) "Audie Murphy" personality. Stress comes in two types (for our purposes), survival and social. Murphy had very little stress in the moment for survival situations, but was terrified of public speaking. There is also a victim personality, due to some combination of innate and socialization that sucks at stress of both kinds. Most of us start somewhere different on both scales. The reasons are beyond the scope, but you can inoculate yourself to stress of both kinds (ie, realistic Simuntion and Toastmasters) but everyone starts off with a tolerance to one or both. You can't always eliminate it, but you can minimize it greatly. Both kinds can affect your performance and need to be addressed before hand. (OH MY GOD I'M GOING TO DIE isn't helpful, but neither is THIS ISN'T HOW GOOD PEOPLE RESOLVE PROBLEMS when you're faced with a shooting problem).

  10. #100
    Excellent post.
    Likes pretty much everything in every caliber.

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