I wandered over to https://pistol-training.com/ when I got home tonight to see what Todd had to say on the topic. The last article posted is germane to this discussion. While he doesn't call out which method to use specifically, the picture accompanying the article is interesting.
I favor dropping to a squat and essentially performing a speed reload. Squat/knee, grab fresh mag while dropping old one, slam new one home. Reacquire grip and scan....recover old mag if possible and stow in pocket. If you bring the pistol in for the reload the partial mag will wind up at your feet.
Honestly I don't train "tactical" reloads hardly at all these days.....I don't think they are very useful to me in the civilian context.
In civilian defensive shootings, which is to say not military nor LEO, I struggle to find cases that required 10 or more rounds. Despite the media, television, Hollywood, and even our own training perpetuating high round count shootings, it appears to be something that doesn't really happen that often. At least on the defensive end of the shooting.
Also, and I do not intend this to be mean or targeted to any individual on this thread, it has been my observation that many if not most people focus on "tactical gun skillz" when they would benefit tremendously by directing their energy in a different direction.....like perhaps a morning run. Or some hand to hand training. In a violent encounter as a civilian you are, in my opinion, far more likely to need either sprinting ability, empty hand abilities, and/or the cardio stamina for them both rather than a reload of any kind.
Can anyone name 10 defensive shootings in the last 10 years that required 10 or more rounds from the defender?
How about 10 defensive shootings in the last 10 years that involved grappling/HTH?
I can come up with the latter almost immediately on youtube.
Civilian shootings, even LEO shootings (with some notable exceptions), have much lower round counts than people tend to think.
Regards,
Fal
As the OP I accept that the various topping off reloads or even reloads in general are less common techniques needed in many gunfights. I also understand there are plenty of other skills that are more critical to a shooting/gunfight or self defense and being well rounded. However I don't see addressing the more minor issues while working on all skills being something to avoid or just cursory gloss over. Hell if that was the case there wouldn't be a thread more than twice as long as this one on "Punisher" logo on guns. There we have something that has and always will have zero effect on the outcome of surviving the gunfight/shooting itself( not the legal aftermath) and has zero ability to improve or have negative effect on,situation awareness,draw,shooting,reloads, use of cover or any other pre or during part of any shooting or gunfight. If we would have just glossed over that topic the first poster could have just said "it doesn't do anything positive and could be a negative in opinions of prosecutors or jury members so don't do it" and left it at that. More was learned by further posts.
That's an extrapolation from games to the real world that doesn't hold up.Originally Posted by Pistol Pete 10
For those wondering if it's every come up, I know of one incident that did involve the use of the retained partial mag*. I would also say it didn't actually matter in the outcome.
I've seen this focus on reloads come and go. I don't like where it's gotten us in terms of gear choice. Open top magazine carriers and the widely spaced 3 or 4 magazine carriers are becoming more and more common on LEO's belts, because faster reloads and more ammo. That's great...until you need to retain your gear. We had some guys learn that the hard way doing crowd control during the Super Bowl. The crowd became unruly, but not truly violent, and guys in the crowd started having gear plucked off their belts.
*as in the rounds were later fired, not just topping off after, which is done pretty routinely.
Last edited by BehindBlueI's; 09-20-2017 at 09:21 AM.
Pocket is fine. I usually find it easier to slip it into my back pocket than clear a cover garment to slip it back into the pouch, especially in positional shooting. It also directly translates to rifle mags and shotgun cards so I'm doing the same thing with all three in my limited range time.
I'm carrying a 1911 right now. I have three magazines on my belt and two in my vest. Our SOP for 1911s is four+ magazines not counting the one in your pistol. I've been doing tac reloads since I transitioned from my Model 66 to a SIG 220. My partially full magazine gets shoved into my belt behind my magazine carrier. I've been doing this 28 years. I practice tac reloads before shift when I put my duty belt on. Needless to say it's pretty ingrained.
We had i service training several years ago where the FI, who I respect tremendously, recommended speed reloads. I decided to stay with what's already programmed.
Just a dog chauffeur that used to hold the dumb end of the leash.
The “time to train” argument this ASP youtube guy throws out doesn’t hold water to me.
Our group runs a hot range when we shoot. As such, the gun is always put it the condition we want it in for the next scenario, so practicing the tactical reload happens a lot, just by virtue of the philosophy of our group.
On which one to use, I like the traditional. I do not condone dropping a loaded magazine (I won’t say ever, but pretty close to it). I want all my ammo to come with me if I have to move. For those with small hands, a reload with retention where only one magazine is handled at one time is an option, too.
We ran a drill once to try and screw people up during tactical reloads. As it turns out, if you’re good with these, the time with which your pistol is without a magazine is incredibly low.
Last edited by Coyote41; 09-20-2017 at 10:20 AM.
Fair point on the picture - I couldn't tell that was a slide lock and shouldn't have mentioned it.
The "Do it correctly" is the crux of it. What is the correct way?
Well, I thought the premise was "Reload method X is an objectively better way to teach and practice reloads than Reload method Y".I've now read every word of every post in this thread (yay me), and while some (perhaps most) people might think I missed the point of the thread, I completely stand behind what I said.
I'll also add that the time I spent writing those posts, and reading this thread, would probably have been better spent practicing reloads.
The correct answer is "Just go practice and don't talk about it"? Practice the less efficient more difficult to accomplish way of doing it? That has never, as far as the collective wisdom of this board is concerned, mattered?
That makes perfect sense for your situation. What would you advise a new LEO or CCW? (Could be two different answers)
Last edited by Soggy; 09-20-2017 at 10:42 AM.
Thank you for sharing the link. This is an example of an extreme situation, and the officer fired 33 times. If someone carries a glock 17 that equals the magazine in his gun, and one reload. He'd still have an extra mag at the end of it if he was carrying two spares. No tac reload necessary. Even better would be carrying 3 spares. He could get into a second gunfight just like the first, and still wouldn't need a tac reload.
Perhaps more importantly: The officer shot at his adversary 33 times. About half the shots missed entirely. Only 2 actually hit the vital zones. It wasn't until he was almost out of ammo that he decided to look at the front site, slow down, and make sure he got good hits. Maybe he should have spent more time training on getting good hits?
Last edited by Soggy; 09-20-2017 at 10:56 AM.
