Tactical Reload is it time to revisit the technique

[Robinson]

I've started practicing administrative reloads more recently because while I think ever needing to do one is unlikely, I can imagine scenarios in which it might be a good idea if given the opportunity.

What I do know is they should be practiced deliberately such that after the reload is performed you are confident the magazine is seated properly in the gun. I had an occasion recently during a pistol class in which I caused a malfunction when the top round failed to feed on my second shot after an administrative reload because I hadn't seated the magazine firmly enough. It was during a shoot/no-shoot drill requiring movement. I recovered and got the gun back in action but it was a definite learning experience.

[ST911]

Part of the problem is the way many are teaching the "tactical reload." Instead of a principles-based approach, many instructors will specify processes for students to struggle through and ultimately fail to retain. Thinking back to assortment of schools I've been to...

Wait for lull in the gunfight or until you're behind cover. That's not a lull, that's a pause.
Dump the partial. Keep the partial. Pick it up if you can. You'll never be able to recover it.
Put the partial back in the mag pouch. Same direction as the other rounds. No, opposite direction so you know which mag is a partial.
Never put a partial back in your pouch. Put it in a pocket. No, not that pocket the other one.
Hold the mag between your first and second finger. No, your second and third. No, in the palm.
You'll never know how many rounds you fired. You'll know if your mag has about a quarter/third/half. It doesn't matter at all, tac reload even after a few rounds.
If you don't do it my/this way, you'll get killed.

I prefer a "replace the partial mag with a full one, do something with the other, and be as consistent as possible" approach.

[octagon]

Which is where my concern lies. And it doesn't. I can always drop the partial mag if something changes and I need to get both hands on the gun.

However this doesn't happen in many situations. People tend to hang onto whatever they are holding when they have an immediate need to shoot. Case in point of recent memory caught on video is the Michigan LEO shooting where the officer held onto the TASER while shooting. There are several others and force on force incidents(i.e. not truly life threatening) where people held onto an item they could have easily dropped for a 2 hand grip but didn't.

The infinitesimal amount of time that the gun spends as a "single shot" is irrelevant. OTOH, retaining partials is also not relevant for for the vast vast vast majority of .le or ccw shootings, either.

If the speed is close enough to the same regardless of technique and the relevance of retaining the partial mag is also why not teach,train,practice a technique that is easier and works for all shooters regardless of handsize or magazine size?

The exception would be something like disaster relief were lost mags are just that, lost, and resupply may be an issue. If I was concerned with, say looters in a flood zone or a lengthy violent riot that interrupted supply chains, THEN I'd be real concerned about retaining partials. As is, I see zero reason to train to dump partials by default as I don't see whatever gain as being relevant to gun fights. I just don't see it as mattering.

Do you think a person in a flood/disaster relief would retain an empty magazine done at slide lock in the same circumstances? I think they would but then they have lost the equipment just the same.

[octagon]

I'm a super gamer fag, that said this seems like a conversation in search of a problem.

Are you safely behind cover with a lull in the action? Keep that partial if you like, method is irrelevant as you have time.

If no to the first question, you should be shooting / getting your ass to cover and if you need to reload do it as fast as you can so dump that mag.

Am I missing something? Other than carry more mags if you're worried about running out of ammo.

How much time is a lull? If you are behind cover cover doing the reload/top off of choice is your attention diverted even a little and where is the badguy(s) during the lull? These are all unknowns. If it takes say 1 second longer to do one reload vs another and takes more mental/physical dexterity to accomplish does this offer an opportunity for the badguy to move out of sight or gain distance toward a person during the lull?

[octagon]

If you don't feel you have enough training time to "master" the magazine exchange, don't do it. If you think that in 8-16 hours students are going to become proficient at anything much beyond even administrative loading...I disagree. I would NOT bother trying to get such folks to do a 'tac reload'. But in the context of the 'student of the gun', especially professional users, it has a place. An admittedly small place, but it's there nonetheless. If you don't think so...then don't do it. Prioritize your training as you see fit for your situation. Nobody else cares, really. Several folks who have actually been involved in gunfights have chimed in and said, "Yeah, it could be useful". If your experience says otherwise, okay. Just load the damn gun.

To your point. If say there were 100 people that were involved in gunfights that performed a Tac reload and said it could be useful but another faster and easier technique would be just as useful would we consider the alternate technique? Are we blinded by the gunfight experience of some to follow and do the exact technique they use successfully because it worked for them or do we consider the general idea of what they did (topping off the gun) since each gunfight is unique?

[BehindBlueI's]

However this doesn't happen in many situations. People tend to hang onto whatever they are holding when they have an immediate need to shoot. Case in point of recent memory caught on video is the Michigan LEO shooting where the officer held onto the TASER while shooting. There are several others and force on force incidents(i.e. not truly life threatening) where people held onto an item they could have easily dropped for a 2 hand grip but didn't.

Separate training issue. Early in the academy we used blocks of wood to simulate magazines, ticket books, etc. and had to drop them. Now, with Tasers being a thing, we train to drop them as well if the situation calls for it.

In my class for civilians, I use a pizza box. It doesn't take a ton of reps to ingrain dropping what you are carrying to get a gun in your hand(s). Prior to training, yes, you see people holding on to it (or more commonly throwing it, wasting time vs just dropping it) but once they have it pointed out to them, not a big deal.

As for the rest, I'd just be re-hashing what I've already said.

[Clobbersaurus]

I have nothing else to add to this other than Ernest Langdon teaches a better method to do tac reloads. Nothing earth shattering, but it's one of those small little nuggets you get from his classes that make them so worthwhile.

[JHC]

Wow I never thought by putting a name to associate it with a technique would cause so much angst. If you are bothered by the terms I used or believe they are the same as something else we can use technique 1 technique 2 and technique 3 for the 3 techniques described in the first post. What they are called by whom doesn't matter but having a discussion without first having some agreement what each technique is becomes a effort in futility.

Since you are introducing an option which is #3 - called Proactive, I think the label is as good as any and helpful for organizing our discussion. We are higher primates after all with advanced language skills.

[JHC]

That said, it does seem as someone mentioned in page 1 that the Proactive is essentially the speed/emergency from in battery.

[octagon]

That said, it does seem as someone mentioned in page 1 that the Proactive is essentially the speed/emergency from in battery.

Yes basically. The only difference between reload #2 and reload #3 is that the magazine is reached for,secured and moved toward the gun prior to dropping the partial magazine. This is done to ensure there is a full magazine available and reduces the amount of time the gun is a single shot weapon. Obvious the times here are fairly small but there is a difference that can easily be demonstrated even if it is small. I plan to try each technique with a timer to see how much difference there is for me between techniques. I would invite others to do the same but I think I pissed in enough people's cereal already if the comments are any indication.