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Thread: Tactical Reload is it time to revisit the technique

  1. #21
    Modding this sack of shit BehindBlueI's's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by octagon View Post
    Maybe this is where the disconnect is. If a person has X amount of time to train and X amount of time to practice. Will they get more repetitions in each technique if they are performing 10 different techniques or 5? If one technique is similar to another do they gain any benefit from the similarities between techniques?

    Maybe as training junkies or gun as part of a lifestyle people many on this board may have different priorities and have different time,money,effort balances than the average police officer, CCH or home defender.
    The context you set:

    Quote Originally Posted by octagon
    Also PLEASE don't assume anything specifically that anyone is for or against taking a partially loaded gun and making it a fully loaded gun at a point in a shooting or gunfight. Also my entire reason for discussion is related only to self defense shooting by citizen concealed carry permit holders(CCH) and Law Enforcement officers(LEO).
    If you want to train up a new technique just to have it or have a conversation on the theoretical differences among them, knock yourself out. If the goal is in increase the odds of prevailing in a gun fight, I don't think the tiny difference in reload speed matters in the context you've set. I also don't think retained ammo matters in any but the most extreme of outliers in the context you've set. I could rattle on about why they don't matter, but that's not the topic at hand or of particular interest.
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  2. #22
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    I do what I've always heard referred to as a "relaod with retention."

    I would be interested if a lefty can do a "tac reload" or any "reload with retention" any other way with an AR.

    I think "reload with retention" is faster, easier, and gets you back to %100 quicker. Bonus since I'm left handed so I use the same idea with a rifle or pistol.

    Sorry if I've misunderstood the purpose of the thread. Others can do whatever they want...they are all better than running out of ammo or shooting yourself in the foot.

    This is where I first heard of the technique. Start at 2:04 if it doesn't automatically.

    Last edited by nwhpfan; 09-17-2017 at 06:34 PM.
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  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by BehindBlueI's View Post
    The context you set:



    If you want to train up a new technique just to have it or have a conversation on the theoretical differences among them, knock yourself out. If the goal is in increase the odds of prevailing in a gun fight, I don't think the tiny difference in reload speed matters in the context you've set. I also don't think retained ammo matters in any but the most extreme of outliers in the context you've set. I could rattle on about why they don't matter, but that's not the topic at hand or of particular interest.
    I'm not sure I understand all your points. Can you clarify?

    One point is whether or not the idea of faster or better way is theoretical? Is the Speed reload or Proactive reload faster or slower in actual use? If one is faster than another then it isn't theoretical anymore. Now whether or not it makes a difference in any specific situation is another matter.

    Whether a technique in reloading is faster or slower than another technique may or may not make a difference but regardless if it does or not would a simpler technique to accomplish the same task be better? We all have a finite amount of training time. My premise is that having less techniques to learn and practice to a unconscious competent level is smarter.

    No man is an island so looking for more input on a techniques pros and cons in application is needed for ferreting out ideas. Everyone in the end will make their own choice but healthy discussion helps bring to light possibilities and probabilities the original author/designer or follower may not have thought of. Am I wrong here?
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  4. #24
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    Still getting the sense that people are not understanding what you proposed Octogon.

    Maybe the title of the thread is causing it? Can mods change thread titles?

    Also, maybe they could put your premise up at the top of your original post and bold it:

    "My premise is that the Tac reload as has been taught,practiced and suggested/recommended is not the best technique for use in topping of a partially loaded gun during a shooting/gunfight and should be replaced by the Proactive reload."

    Right now the premise is buried at the bottom. Perhaps reword as:

    My premise is that the Tac reload with magazine retention is not the best technique for topping off a partially loaded gun during a shooting/gunfight and should be replaced by a simpler reloading technique that does not retain the original, partially depleted, magazine.

    The passage Blues pointed to was also a bit confusing.
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  5. #25
    Modding this sack of shit BehindBlueI's's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by octagon View Post
    . Now whether or not it makes a difference in any specific situation is another matter.
    Which is where my concern lies. And it doesn't. I can always drop the partial mag if something changes and I need to get both hands on the gun. The infinitesimal amount of time that the gun spends as a "single shot" is irrelevant. OTOH, retaining partials is also not relevant for for the vast vast vast majority of .le or ccw shootings, either. The exception would be something like disaster relief were lost mags are just that, lost, and resupply may be an issue. If I was concerned with, say looters in a flood zone or a lengthy violent riot that interrupted supply chains, THEN I'd be real concerned about retaining partials. As is, I see zero reason to train to dump partials by default as I don't see whatever gain as being relevant to gun fights. I just don't see it as mattering.

    Quote Originally Posted by Soggy View Post
    My premise is that the Tac reload with magazine retention is not the best technique for topping off a partially loaded gun during a shooting/gunfight and should be replaced by a simpler reloading technique that does not retain the original, partially depleted, magazine.
    Seriously, I get what's under discussion. I think everyone else does as well.
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  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by BehindBlueI's View Post
    Which is where my concern lies. And it doesn't. I can always drop the partial mag if something changes and I need to get both hands on the gun. The infinitesimal amount of time that the gun spends as a "single shot" is irrelevant. OTOH, retaining partials is also not relevant for for the vast vast vast majority of .le or ccw shootings, either. The exception would be something like disaster relief were lost mags are just that, lost, and resupply may be an issue. If I was concerned with, say looters in a flood zone or a lengthy violent riot that interrupted supply chains, THEN I'd be real concerned about retaining partials. As is, I see zero reason to train to dump partials by default as I don't see whatever gain as being relevant to gun fights. I just don't see it as mattering.



    Seriously, I get what's under discussion. I think everyone else does as well.
    I'm sure you do, but I've seen a couple more "it is better to have a full gun" type comments, so I'm not sure about everyone else. And the other comments have completely ignored the overarching question, which is: It is a good idea to teach people to top off the gun - But what is the best method to teach them?".

    As a noob, I think I was better served by learning the easier method to execute, and it is a disservice to teach people a more complicated method that has no benefit in likely encounters.
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  7. #27
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    I'm a super gamer fag, that said this seems like a conversation in search of a problem.

    Are you safely behind cover with a lull in the action? Keep that partial if you like, method is irrelevant as you have time.

    If no to the first question, you should be shooting / getting your ass to cover and if you need to reload do it as fast as you can so dump that mag.

    Am I missing something? Other than carry more mags if you're worried about running out of ammo.
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  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by busdriver View Post
    I'm a super gamer fag, that said this seems like a conversation in search of a problem.

    Are you safely behind cover with a lull in the action? Keep that partial if you like, method is irrelevant as you have time.

    If no to the first question, you should be shooting / getting your ass to cover and if you need to reload do it as fast as you can so dump that mag.

    Am I missing something? Other than carry more mags if you're worried about running out of ammo.
    You are an accomplished shooter who has mastered the finer points of the craft, so you have options.

    Picture a dozen random folks that don't know how to operate a gun, who don't know when they should and should not be shooting people, or know how to shoot bad guys successfully without getting shot, shooting themselves, or shooting some innocent bystander. Assuming they do shoot someone (or even draw a weapon), they now have to navigate the legal system without winding up in the slammer or spending their retirement account on legal fees. You have 8-16 hours at best to teach them what they need to know. Would you spend time on teaching multiple ways of topping off the gun in the middle of a gun fight?
    Last edited by Soggy; 09-17-2017 at 11:06 PM.
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  9. #29
    Member Zincwarrior's Avatar
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    What the heck is this thread about? Just change the mag and call the PoPo before someone else does.
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  10. #30
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    If you don't feel you have enough training time to "master" the magazine exchange, don't do it. If you think that in 8-16 hours students are going to become proficient at anything much beyond even administrative loading...I disagree. I would NOT bother trying to get such folks to do a 'tac reload'. But in the context of the 'student of the gun', especially professional users, it has a place. An admittedly small place, but it's there nonetheless. If you don't think so...then don't do it. Prioritize your training as you see fit for your situation. Nobody else cares, really. Several folks who have actually been involved in gunfights have chimed in and said, "Yeah, it could be useful". If your experience says otherwise, okay. Just load the damn gun.
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