Tactical Reload is it time to revisit the technique

[octagon]

This thread is to keep all posts on the topic from cluttering up other threads that started in the LE Use of force thread about Tactical reload (Tac reload).

Please read carefully so there is no confusion on what each technique is and the specific concerns about each. Also PLEASE don't assume anything specifically that anyone is for or against taking a partially loaded gun and making it a fully loaded gun at a point in a shooting or gunfight. Also my entire reason for discussion is related only to self defense shooting by citizen concealed carry permit holders(CCH) and Law Enforcement officers(LEO).

First any of the described techniques are intended to be used after shots have been fired, during a defensive gunfight or shooting by CCH or LEO when an opportunity presents itself allowing for the citizen or officer to perform the technique (preferably behind cover, OR with other LEO(s) present with gun not being manipulated or haven't had fired a single shot or other related circumstances making the technique reasonable) This is NOT a discussion on the competitive side of these techniques or similar as the circumstances of risk are present in CCH or LEO shooting or gunfight and not in competition. Competition rules or stage requirements may dictate the tac reload,speed reload or similar which may be good practice but not intended to part of this discussion.

The below listed techniques are all intended to take a partially loaded handgun to full capacity during an opportune time in a shooting or gunfight prior to the gun being completely empty or slide lock condition.

Tactical Reload or Tac reload

Step 1 move support hand from 2 hand grip to full magazine
Step 2 grasp full magazine and move it to just below gun.
Step 3 drop partial magazine from gun into hand holding full magazine.
Step 4 insert full magazine while holding partial magazine in same support hand
Step 5 move support hand from near gun to beltline,empty magazine pouch or pocket
Step 6 secure partial magazine in location of choice.
Step 7 return support hand to 2 handed grip on gun

A real shooting where a LEO performs a Tac reload.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z_PXle-vzbw Tac reload begins at 1min 36seconds


Speed Reload

Step 1 drop partial magazine from gun while moving support hand to full magazine.
Step 2 grasp full magazine and move it to gun’s empty magazine well
Step 3 insert full magazine
Step 4 return support hand to 2 handed grip

A real shooting where a LEO performs a Speed reload.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c3OQsc_QjQE Speed reload begins at about 1 min 15 seconds.



Proactive reload

Step 1 move support hand to full magazine
Step 2 grasp full magazine and move it to gun
Step 3 as full magazine approaches gun press magazine button to eject partial magazine from gun
Step 4 insert full magazine into gun
Step 5 Return support hand to 2 handed grip

Here is a review and demonstration of the Proactive reload.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dTG98opPuMs

Please use the above video examples as just a general example or single data point to discuss the individual technique and their strengths or weaknesses for individual use in the future and for the training and practice implications NOT personal attacks or support for the individual officers involved who thankfully survived their deadly encounters nor Jon at Active Self Protection whether you like him or hate him or the channel.



My premise is that the Tac reload as has been taught,practiced and suggested/recommended is not the best technique for use in topping of a partially loaded gun during a shooting/gunfight and should be replaced by the Proactive reload. My reasons are that the Tac reload takes more time and effort to learn and practice to be able to perform under pressure of actual shooting/gunfight than other techniques. The Tac reload requires more hand/finger dexterity than the other techniques which is diminished to some capacity during a shooting/gunfight. The Tac reload has the same or greater amount of time where the gun is a single shot weapon and/or is being operated by the dominant hand only. The Tac reload is farther from the conventional Slide lock reload techniques trained and taught at most schools,police academies, and basic firearms skills courses.

I am not saying that the Tac reload has not been performed,has not been performed under stress or that it is a useless or dumb technique. I am only suggesting that there is/are better technique(s) that could be used in the same circumstances that likely would require less training and practice to be performed well under stress. That the alternate technique(s) to top off the gun and do so along with getting or keeping 2 hands on the gun for a longer period of time. The alternate techniques require less dexterity and are thus more robust under stress. Lastly there are no documented cases of a CCH or LEO having ever performed a Tac reload or alternate technique where they needed to or chose to use the partial magazine to complete the defensive action in the shooting/gunfight.

[JohnO]

First of all the code names need to go. What does Tactical Reload mean to the uninitiated? Reload with Retention or Reload with out Retention is clearer and gets to the heart of the matter.

Do you feel comfortable dropping unused rounds given the circumstances? What are you carrying? I live in a Hell Hole where the non-LEO is not allowed to have more than 10 rounds in a magazine. I carry a 1911. If I fired 2 or 3 rounds and had one spare magazine of eight rounds I would not feel comfortable abandoning 40% of my available ammunition.

Since the operation of plusing up the gun is conducted during a lull in the action I am not going to get overly excited about the time benefits of one verses the other. The difference is relatively negligible.

[Totem Polar]

From a joe citizen civilian viewpoint, an argument can be made that there are just two kinds of reload: emergency, and administrative. I'll leave LE and .Mil to folks who would know.

[ASH556]

First of all the code names need to go. What does Tactical Reload mean to the uninitiated? Reload with Retention or Reload with out Retention is clearer and gets to the heart of the matter.

Do you feel comfortable dropping unused rounds given the circumstances? What are you carrying? I live in a Hell Hole where the non-LEO is not allowed to have more than 10 rounds in a magazine. I carry a 1911. If I fired 2 or 3 rounds and had one spare magazine of eight rounds I would not feel comfortable abandoning 40% of my available ammunition.

Since the operation of plusing up the gun is conducted during a lull in the action I am not going to get overly excited about the time benefits of one verses the other. The difference is relatively negligible.

Agree

ETA: I think too much training is based on trying to throw problem solving thought out the window and base everything on muscle memory. I believe that would be a poor training philosophy. Your initial post reads to me in a way to suggest that we must learn one best way and repeat ad nauseum to build muscle memory rather than evaluating the problem and applying the best solution.

A "tac reload" (the gun has not been shot to slide lock) might be performed with or without retention based on the circumstances. Know how to do both and apply the correct solution at the time.

[Erick Gelhaus]

I was writing my response and making breakfast (I work nights) while others were typing so there may well be some overlap.

So, I’ll bite. But first, the way you are describing the techniques you mention leads to one of my biggest pet peeves. I’m fine with a different technique, what makes me tilt my head in wonder is people coming up with new names for things … a pro-active reload? And quite frankly I tend to think principles rather than specific TTPs.

So, while there are variations of how they are done, I believe there are really only three reloads: Administrative, Speed, and Tactical.

A traditional, doctrinal even, tac reload was more than likely geared to single stack pistols like the 1911A1. On the few times I could have asked, I did not ask Cooper about this specifically.

Method … meet the criteria for doing it rather than going to a speed reload; reach for & acquire full magazine; bring it up to magazine well; depress mag release & remove used magazine; insert & seat full magazine; put used magazine where you choose to (empty pouch, pocket, waist band); re-establish grip.

Tac reload alternative (different method rather than different name) … Again meet the criteria for doing it rather than a speed reload; remove used magazine & secure it (pouch or waist band – mag pouch is out because it is still full. This gets us into the area some complain about which is never practicing the reload from the pocket you put the used magazine in); acquire full magazine and insert/seat it; re-establish grip. Works better for those with smaller hands &/or double stack magazines. Works pretty decently for left handers reloading ARs/M16FOW.

Or, one can do a speed reload, that just happens to be the in-battery version. Drawbacks are quite possibly not being able to recover, retrieve the magazine – Bad if you have a reduced capacity pistol and that’s your only spare, or environmental conditions are such you can’t / won’t reach down to get it.

Now, your speed reload and pro-active reload … Your pro-active reload is the original speed reload taught at Gunsite (acquire the new magazine first to make sure there is one). The speed reload you described is what many now teach it as.

The principle at play here for whatever variant of the tac reload seems to be … I’ve been shooting, I want a full gun (versus I’ve been shooting & I need a full gun). Oh, and I need the magazine in the gun and whatever ammunition is left in it.

Want versus need? I’m not in the open without cover, I don’t need to engage anyone at this moment.

Is this method as necessary with current double stack pistols? No, but it is still viable for most – except those with smaller hands. I have smaller hands but can do it with most guns.

DB and I have discussed this at length. Once one walked out the gate at API, those who advocated for this were serious west coast coppers who had been involved in multiple OIS and other critical incidents. All three techniques (either tactical reload & speed reload) require some level of dexterity which implies some level of thought and clear headedness.

I note there is now an acknowledgement that this has actually been done albeit without having to begin using the new magazine. My recollection is that was absent in the initial discussion and since it ran counter to my experience annoyed me a wee bit. As I have said before, I ask about successful uses about techniques that frequently taught. Reading Speir’s description of Caputo’s shooting and the discussion is how it just happened. The skill had been drilled enough that is was done without issue. Had the BadGuy’s car come back through, Dean C had a full blaster instead of a half full one. To me that is worth the training time.

Part of my bias may be that the only thing I have ever had to speed reload was a belt fed, crew served weapon.

[Erick Gelhaus]

Duplicate, please delete.

[BehindBlueI's]

Lastly there are no documented cases of a CCH or LEO having ever performed a Tac reload or alternate technique where they needed to or chose to use the partial magazine to complete the defensive action in the shooting/gunfight.

Are there documented cases were small differences in reload speed mattered?
Are there documented cases were an officer were the length of time the gun spent as a "single shot" mattered?

[AMC]

Sigh. I know better...but okay, I'll bite. First off, I have to agree a bit with Mike Pannone. We clutter up technique and ideas a lot with names...especially "tactical". As Mike says....it's a magazine exchange...let's call it that. As Angus has so thoughtfully pointed out, these are principles we're talking about, and everything is situationally dependant. Sometimes the "in battery speed reload" is what's called for, sometimes a magazine exchange makes more sense. How many bad guys are there? What kind of weapon do they have? What type of weapon do I have, and what is my magazine capacity? The real answer is...it depends. I also agree with Ash556 that we should be stressing proactive problem solving over unconscious decisions when it comes to tactical issues...and the decision on how to reload is more a "decision" than a weapon manipulation issue, in this context (not an emergency "holyfuckincrapIneedbulletsnow!!!") I remember a lot of "instructors" at one point in the late 90's poo-poohing the idea of the fast presentation from the holster, shooting on the move, and the "tactical" reload. In my one and only (God willing) shooting, I did all three. Did I need the new magazine, much less the partial one? Nope. But I had a gun with 12 rounds in it instead of 3....which was better.

[Odin Bravo One]

I won't waste anyone's time by banging out a novel length response, but the "tactical reload" has proven the usefulness of the technique on countless occasions. Just because one can't find an example where the documented use is available to the general public doesn't mean it didn't happen.

Go to enough gunfights, eventually you'll find yourself in a position where the "tactical reload" is the appropriate action to take.

[Soggy]

I won't waste anyone's time by banging out a novel length response, but the "tactical reload" has proven the usefulness of the technique on countless occasions. Just because one can't find an example where the documented use is available to the general public doesn't mean it didn't happen.

Go to enough gunfights, eventually you'll find yourself in a position where the "tactical reload" is the appropriate action to take.

Octagon never said don't top off the gun, as has been assumed by most of the commentators unfortunately. The question is: do you retain the empty after the top off. Do you teach multiple ways to reload to new shooters?

A lot of you guys are expert gunfighters, and will have a lot of tools in your toolbox. For the typical the typical ccw'er (like moi) does it make sense to work on multiple ways to top off the gun? One just learn the easiest, fastest way?

There is an opportunity cost. I would be better served practicing to deploy my gun and getting rounds on target than training for low probability situations. If it was my job to get into gunfights vs make hit home from picking up the groceries then that would be different.

Regarding the crew served weapons Angus mentioned - I was prohibited from using them by the Geneva Convention, so I can't comment on that.