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Thread: Breaking shots at speed

  1. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Wayne Dobbs View Post
    I'd suggest Larry Vickers' command fire trigger drill as part of your journey. It's one of several trigger drills of his that I use and one I find the most useful for training to fire a shot at what I term "operational speed", meaning the pace at which you deliver a shot for real. This drill isolates the trigger press function and tests your ability to press in a compressed time frame. Per Larry, it is what Jeff Cooper meant by the term "compressed surprise break".

    You need a timer and a smallish target for the distance you're working at. I use the X ring of a B8 bull to seven yards, the ten ring to 15 yards, the black (9 and 10 rings) to 25 yards and an 8" plate to 50 yards. Set your timer to 0.35 seconds when you first start this work and work down to 0.25 seconds for your standard of performance. You can mix dummy rounds in if you wish or not (but it sure keeps you honest to do so). If alone, set a delay and then get the gun aimed in as perfectly as possible and slack out the trigger but do not "cheat" into the actual press. On the beep, fire a center hit in the time frame you're working on. You must fire as SOON AS YOU HEAR the beginning of the beep (which is normally about 0.3 seconds in duration). The hit must be in the zone you declared. That means if I fire a 10 at five yards, it's a stone cold MISS, because the X ring is my zone (and at three yards I require the X itself to be struck).

    If you blow a shot from grip or trigger errors, download the gun and execute 10 perfect trigger presses and start over. You should get to the 0.25 or less zone with center hits with work and when you have, you realize that once you've aligned sights and slacked the trigger, you're less than a quarter second from delivering at hit at whatever distance you're working. After you feel good about yourself, go back and do it strong hand only....and then support hand only. At the point you've mastered this, you have also mastered trigger and grip control.

    You should see good sights and spend your mental energy on maintaining perfect grip (meaning it doesn't increase with the pressing of the trigger) and a smooth and well paced trigger press. If you can do this drill well and consistently, you're a good fundamental shooter. I use it a lot on all levels of shooters and find it illuminating and often frustrating. My favorite way to run it now is at 50 yards on a plate rack. Some days I'm smug and some days the range air is blue from the profanities!
    Love this. Actually did a lot of the same thing dry, just never tried it live.

    Wayne, I assume you do this with both trigger modes on a DA/SA, correct?

  2. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Jared View Post
    Love this. Actually did a lot of the same thing dry, just never tried it live.

    Wayne, I assume you do this with both trigger modes on a DA/SA, correct?
    I would focus on SA, as DA is cheating on shots like this, and the short SA is often where issues surface.
    Likes pretty much everything in every caliber.

  3. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by GJM View Post
    I would focus on SA, as DA is cheating on shots like this, and the short SA is often where issues surface.
    Ok, I'm guessing you're implying the rolling DA trigger helps prevent anticipation issues and thus this drill is best done SA where the short pull/wall combo causes a problem of mashing stuff while trying to break the shot "right now." Otherwise, you'll have to explain this one to me in a little more detail

  4. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Jared View Post
    Ok, I'm guessing you're implying the rolling DA trigger helps prevent anticipation issues and thus this drill is best done SA where the short pull/wall combo causes a problem of mashing stuff while trying to break the shot "right now." Otherwise, you'll have to explain this one to me in a little more detail
    Yes, you described it perfectly.
    Likes pretty much everything in every caliber.

  5. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by GJM View Post
    Yes, you described it perfectly.
    Ok, then I see your point. I do think there's value in doing it DA, at least dry. That helped teach me to work the DA in one smooth continuous motion, which I think is vital to optimal DA results. Most anticipation issues do occur SA though, which is likely what this drill helps to correct best.

  6. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Jared View Post
    Ok, then I see your point. I do think there's value in doing it DA, at least dry. That helped teach me to work the DA in one smooth continuous motion, which I think is vital to optimal DA results. Most anticipation issues do occur SA though, which is likely what this drill helps to correct best.
    A member, in a recent DA/SA thread, described a method of taking up a large amount of travel quickly, until the trigger stacks, then modulating the rest based on target size. I have been experimenting with this, with the P30L, and it is interesting.
    Likes pretty much everything in every caliber.

  7. #17
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    If you don't have the issue when you focus on the target then you should just focus on the target. No need to do something for the sake of doing it if it doesn't result in good hits.

    Speed is releative to your skill at this time. There is the "limit of human performance" and then everything else. The greatest shooters in the world are included in "everything else" at least some of the time.

    If you can do something in 1 second but not .09 seconds then you do it 1 second when you need too, and you do it faster as your learning. Breaking into .09, then .08 is just a matter of doing and failing, evaluating, then adjusting or repeating.

    FWIW soemthing DF did for me was "innoculate" myself from noise, sound, flash, etc. My focus is on what I'm doing not what the gun is doing which for some can cause a premature reaction to the recoil. YMMV but there is little out there that can be solved with shooting and DF.
    Last edited by nwhpfan; 09-17-2017 at 12:07 AM.
    A71593

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by nwhpfan View Post
    there is little out there that can be solved with shooting and DF.
    I mean "can't" be solved....
    A71593

  9. #19
    Site Supporter Clobbersaurus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clusterfrack View Post
    I'll second the PACT timer. It's simple and reliable.

    I'm not sure Clobber and I are on the same page about "seeing the gun dip" on a dummy round. There's nothing wrong with a post ignition push--you'll see a lot of very high level shooters do this when they have a misfire. It's a big problem if it's a pre ignition push. You can sometimes train out a preignition push by using a dummy round.
    We're on the same page. You just explain things better than I do.
    "Next time somebody says USPSA or IPSC is all hosing, junk punch them." - Les Pepperoni
    --

  10. #20
    Curious?

    Once we've "mastered" @Wayne Dobbs (or rather Vicker's) drill, does it make sense to start this drill with the trigger pinned to the rear? That would add resetting the trigger.
    David S.

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