Breaking shots at speed

[ER_STL]

Okey-dokey, so in replacement of Gabe’s Pistol Shooting Solutions class that we had to cancel this Fall, I signed up for a local defensive pistol class and enjoyed it quite a bit. It’s very clear to me now that my most immediate problem to be solved is the push on the gun I exert when trying to press the trigger quickly. I can dry-fire all day long and keep the sights relatively aligned while mashing the trigger but when I get to the range and try and make a shot under pressure, I still have the tendency of pushing my shots low. If I slow down I’ll hit where I want to but when I’ve got a timer on me I throw shots. Furthermore, this problem only happens if I’m trying to track my shots through follow-through. If I switch to target focus the problem goes away.

What’s a good way to work through this? Run drills where the objective is to react to a timer and break a shot as quickly as I can? Start slowly and gradually increase my speed? Would love some feedback….

Thanks,
Eric

[Hrhawk]

Have you considered a timing issue? You say it does not happen slow fire and only while tracking the sights. Assuming you mean directly straight down and not low left or right, which might be more indicative of a trigger control issue, consider whether you are actually breaking the shot when the sights are lined up. I find some shooters, in an attempt to shoot faster, BEGIN to Press the trigger as the front post comes into alignment. By the time the shot breaks the front sight has dipped below equal height.

Fixes are numerous but consider working on your grip and modifying what you need to see ( start the press sooner) in order to initiate firing the gun. If it's a gamer gun consider respringing to minimize the dip or tailor your ammo.

[Wayne Dobbs]

I'd suggest Larry Vickers' command fire trigger drill as part of your journey. It's one of several trigger drills of his that I use and one I find the most useful for training to fire a shot at what I term "operational speed", meaning the pace at which you deliver a shot for real. This drill isolates the trigger press function and tests your ability to press in a compressed time frame. Per Larry, it is what Jeff Cooper meant by the term "compressed surprise break".

You need a timer and a smallish target for the distance you're working at. I use the X ring of a B8 bull to seven yards, the ten ring to 15 yards, the black (9 and 10 rings) to 25 yards and an 8" plate to 50 yards. Set your timer to 0.35 seconds when you first start this work and work down to 0.25 seconds for your standard of performance. You can mix dummy rounds in if you wish or not (but it sure keeps you honest to do so). If alone, set a delay and then get the gun aimed in as perfectly as possible and slack out the trigger but do not "cheat" into the actual press. On the beep, fire a center hit in the time frame you're working on. You must fire as SOON AS YOU HEAR the beginning of the beep (which is normally about 0.3 seconds in duration). The hit must be in the zone you declared. That means if I fire a 10 at five yards, it's a stone cold MISS, because the X ring is my zone (and at three yards I require the X itself to be struck).

If you blow a shot from grip or trigger errors, download the gun and execute 10 perfect trigger presses and start over. You should get to the 0.25 or less zone with center hits with work and when you have, you realize that once you've aligned sights and slacked the trigger, you're less than a quarter second from delivering at hit at whatever distance you're working. After you feel good about yourself, go back and do it strong hand only....and then support hand only. At the point you've mastered this, you have also mastered trigger and grip control.

You should see good sights and spend your mental energy on maintaining perfect grip (meaning it doesn't increase with the pressing of the trigger) and a smooth and well paced trigger press. If you can do this drill well and consistently, you're a good fundamental shooter. I use it a lot on all levels of shooters and find it illuminating and often frustrating. My favorite way to run it now is at 50 yards on a plate rack. Some days I'm smug and some days the range air is blue from the profanities!

[ER_STL]

I'd suggest Larry Vickers' command fire trigger drill as part of your journey. It's one of several trigger drills of his that I use and one I find the most useful for training to fire a shot at what I term "operational speed", meaning the pace at which you deliver a shot for real. This drill isolates the trigger press function and tests your ability to press in a compressed time frame. Per Larry, it is what Jeff Cooper meant by the term "compressed surprise break".

You need a timer and a smallish target for the distance you're working at. I use the X ring of a B8 bull to seven yards, the ten ring to 15 yards, the black (9 and 10 rings) to 25 yards and an 8" plate to 50 yards. Set your timer to 0.35 seconds when you first start this work and work down to 0.25 seconds for your standard of performance. You can mix dummy rounds in if you wish or not (but it sure keeps you honest to do so). If alone, set a delay and then get the gun aimed in as perfectly as possible and slack out the trigger but do not "cheat" into the actual press. On the beep, fire a center hit in the time frame you're working on. You must fire as SOON AS YOU HEAR the beginning of the beep (which is normally about 0.3 seconds in duration). The hit must be in the zone you declared. That means if I fire a 10 at five yards, it's a stone cold MISS, because the X ring is my zone (and at three yards I require the X itself to be struck).

If you blow a shot from grip or trigger errors, download the gun and execute 10 perfect trigger presses and start over. You should get to the 0.25 or less zone with center hits with work and when you have, you realize that once you've aligned sights and slacked the trigger, you're less than a quarter second from delivering at hit at whatever distance you're working. After you feel good about yourself, go back and do it strong hand only....and then support hand only. At the point you've mastered this, you have also mastered trigger and grip control.

You should see good sights and spend your mental energy on maintaining perfect grip (meaning it doesn't increase with the pressing of the trigger) and a smooth and well paced trigger press. If you can do this drill well and consistently, you're a good fundamental shooter. I use it a lot on all levels of shooters and find it illuminating and often frustrating. My favorite way to run it now is at 50 yards on a plate rack. Some days I'm smug and some days the range air is blue from the profanities!

Awesome....want to hug it. Which shot timer do you recommend?

[Clusterfrack]

In addition to Wayne's drill, I recommend more dryfire to speed up every aspect of your draw other than breaking the shot. Make it feel normal to draw to a steady sight picture in 0.Xs. I hear you saying that you already do that, but I think you need even more dryfire. At some point you'll be shooting Alphas in 0.9s and feeling totally relaxed. It just takes a lot of work.

[Clobbersaurus]

I think Wayne nailed it. But to add my two cents; it sounds like a pre-ignition push issue that has manifested itself during certain drills. Along with Wayne's drill and lots of dry practice, like Clusterfrack noted, you may want to work in some dummy rounds into your live fire. There is no better way to plainly see trigger press issues than with ball and dummy. Do it randomly for every drill. Load mags with some full of live rounds and some not, throw 'em into a dump pouch, shake it around, and then pull the mags out and fill your mag pouches.

I guarantee that you will quickly flush out your issue(s) and you will work hard to resolve it, as there is nothing worse than seeing your gun dip horribly on a dead round.

One last thing, which you probably already know, but it is worth saying again: Grip the gun harder. It masks a lot of trigger press issues and at speed, at close range, everyone is slapping the shit out of their triggers. The guys who grip the gun hardest have the least issues.

Good luck and let us know how it goes!

[Wayne Dobbs]

Awesome....want to hug it. Which shot timer do you recommend?

I use the PACT Club Timer, but there are lots of others out there that work well.

[Clusterfrack]

I'll second the PACT timer. It's simple and reliable.

I'm not sure Clobber and I are on the same page about "seeing the gun dip" on a dummy round. There's nothing wrong with a post ignition push--you'll see a lot of very high level shooters do this when they have a misfire. It's a big problem if it's a pre ignition push. You can sometimes train out a preignition push by using a dummy round.

[Sterling Archer]

I went through the same thing. It's a stress induced flinch trying to compensate for recoil to gain speed. Here's a great drill to show it and help you work through it:

[GJM]

I did Wayne's drill on eight inch plates at 50 yards today. Neat drill, and really reinforces the desirability of aggressively prepping.

I would also make sure you are watching the sights/dot throughout the entire trigger press. This happens me sometimes when I shoot LEM after shorter triggers -- I need to be careful to concentrate throughout the press, since it takes longer.