Is there some data indicating some bad guys have kept on chugging with a clenched fist sized pattern when a double-clenched fist sized pattern would have stopped them?
This strikes me as needing something to talk about more than needing to solve a real world problem.
So... Steve Fisher is just needing something to talk about, or this thread?Originally Posted by BehindBlueI's
I've heard him mention it several times and it ran contrary to my thought patterns... I wanted to bounce it off others and see what people thought because I'm pretty new to non-hunting shotgun applications. God forbid I try that on a firearms forum where people meet to talk about guns and ammuntion.
Last edited by warpedcamshaft; 09-13-2017 at 08:30 PM.
LE Flitecontrol is an excellent choice for the quality control, brass heads on the shells, low flash powder, and the wad will keep the hull from deforming in the magazine during long term storage (years on end).
I understand that Flitecontrol and Versatite were late to the party and rifles had already started to replace shotguns in the LE world, but I doubt that I'll ever hear about buckshot failure because the pattern was too tight.
Whether you think you can or you can't, you're probably right.
The first. I've no idea who he is, mind you, but I'm not seeing tight groups of shot as a failure.So... Steve Fisher is just needing something to talk about, or this thread?
I've heard him mention it several times and it ran contrary to my thought patterns... I wanted to bounce it off others and see what people thought because I'm pretty new to non-hunting shotgun applications. God forbid I try that on a firearms forum where people meet to talk about guns and ammuntion.
Honestly, all of this drives me towards it more than the super duper tight pattern.
I was into 10mm Auto before it sold out and went mainstream, but these days I'm here for the revolver and epidemiology information.
Damn good point. I've been magnet checking a lot of shotgun ammo lately with shitty shotgun chambers being common now days. Almost all commercial (for dumb-ass civilians) shot-shells are coated-steel base.
On a side note: I would like to know if the Federal PB127 DPRS shell base is magnetic? (I believe the "battery/primer cup" is almost always steel nowdays, but not the entire base)
I would also like to know if the LEB127 DPRS shell base is magnetic?
The modern "Brenneke USA" shells I have seen have all been coated-steel bases, and I've seen them shut down 2 pump-guns (870 was pounded on ground muzzle-up and fired next round, Mossberg 500 had to be pushed out of chamber with rod).
Last edited by warpedcamshaft; 09-14-2017 at 12:17 AM.
This came up in my last shotgun class. The reason we spend a bit of time patterning guns is like the importance of getting a solid zero on a rifle. I want shooters to know exactly how their gun patterns their intended load and how that works with their gun and their sights. For a bead sight basically stock 18" shotgun that will only be doing bedroom bunker defense, regular buck is fine. If that gun may end up going outside, working larger residences or businesses, then controlled shot rounds make sense. As our sighting systems give more capability to place loads more surgically, it makes sense to use loads that will work with those sights. Mission drives the gear train.
For me, I like rat holes if possible. Lot of air in, fluid out, and hard to fix. I use controlled buckshot with red dots. Dot, press, large hole. As distance increases, I decrease the chances of losing pellets with controlled rounds. I like that as I have found the crooks often are controlling the distance of the fight and not you. To me, the benefits of controlled rounds outweighs and perceived negatives. I also have been using Vang Barrels for a lot of years specifically to get the performance I can now get with factory controlled shot loads in a non Vang barrel. Because I am now using a lot of semi auto's, the controlled loads help get the performance I want.
Just a Hairy Special Snowflake supply clerk with no field experience, shooting an Asymetric carbine as a Try Hard. Snarky and easily butt hurt. Favorite animal is the Cape Buffalo....likely indicative of a personality disorder.
"If I had a grandpa, he would look like Delbert Belton".
I'd wager it's more of a shotgun problem than a shell problem. I am astounded at how shitty the finish is on Mossberg chambers in particular. I also have thousands of shells downrange from benelli shotguns with literally zero stuck shells. I would bet it you smoothed out the chambers in shotguns that required special ammo to function, they would cease to need special ammo to function.
No disrespect intended to Steve Fisher, but it seems like the argument that comes from people that say you should spread out your handgun hits on a target for maximum effect.
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The shot group size was selected in part because it offers better chance to hit a moving target or a side body shot, while also still being effective for frontal presentations and reducing the amount of stray pellets off target. (If i am remembering his lecture correctly)
( did not see this comment, what i posted above is almost the end of his sentence)
If you get a one hole group, why not just use slugs or a rifle?
Last edited by Artemas2; 09-14-2017 at 11:05 AM. Reason: adding a quote
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