What about triggers?

[Mntneer357]

I'd like to preface my question by saying I'm curious about this and am not, in any way, seeking to be argumentative. Also, in full disclosure, on my truck is a sticker from the defunct Craft International. While I never attended and never met the man, Chief Kyle was someone I admired and I wanted to support his organization. Having shared that.....

I've read the below thread about the negative impact of having certain symbols on one's firearms. I understand the gist is "just don't - it's not a good idea". My question is how is having any of those symbols on your firearm much different from let's say tricking out the factory designed OEM trigger?

Wouldn't a prosecutor have a veritable field day with someone who used a firearm with a modified trigger in an allegedly defensive shooting. I'm just seeing terms like "hair trigger" and the like being used. I see how having certain symbols on your gun may paint you in a negative light, wouldn't a special/modified trigger be worse?

Thanks for your help and time!

[tylerw02]

If it is a good shoot, it is a good shoot. The tool used shouldn't make any difference if you're legally justified and can articulate why such modifications were made. Oftentimes, if not cosmetic, I would imagine that it may not even be known to be modified.


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[blues]

I'll let others with more experience in swapping out triggers or their components fill in most of the gaps...but the primary "negative" that can potentially be used against one is if one "lightened" the trigger to the point of creating a "hair trigger" or otherwise made the trigger unreliable in some fashion.

Swapping out a trigger or components which result in firmer, more predictable, better user feedback etc won't be perceived in the same negative light.

That said, having only swapped out the trigger on my AR for one with a smoother and more tactile pull, I'll end it here by simply saying that changes for safety's sake are not a negative. Changes made to lower the pull below a certain threshold may be perceived as dangerous, ill advised or worse.

[spinmove_]

Well, that depends. Depends on what? A lot, actually. What kind of firearm is getting the modified trigger? In what way is the trigger being modified? Does the modified trigger disable or bypass any of the factory safeties on the firearm? Does the modification make the trigger too light?

Generally speaking, modifying the trigger is best not done on most handguns these days. Partly because they're all pretty shootable as is and a lot of people doing the modifications will (knowingly or not) bypass internal safeties. Having a modified or smoothed out trigger isn't something that's new.

If the mod is done acceptably then it can be argued that it allows the shooter to place shots more precisely under stress and reduce collateral damage. Modifications to your carry gun isn't bad. Bad modifications to your carry gun are bad.

Example of an acceptable trigger mod: Glock 19 with a stock pull weight of 7lbs taken down to a pull weight of 5lbs 6oz through way of OEM parts and VERY light polishing.

Example of an unacceptable trigger mod: Glock 19 with a stock pull weight of 7lbs. taken down to a pull weight of 3lbs even through use of all aftermarket parts which may or may not leave internal safeties intact, including removing the trigger "dingus".


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[Mntneer357]

Blues, thank you, sir. You explained what I was struggling to wrap my noggin around.

None of my firearms have had any modifications beyond night sights and/or an improved slide release.

[tylerw02]

Spin, while I agree with your sentiment, how will "bad modifications" determine justification for legal use of force?


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[BehindBlueI's]

It was covered in the Punisher sticker thread already.

Pretend you have to explain to someone has never seen or held a real gun, and who knows nothing about guns other than what he's seen on tv. He may believe you can stick your finger in the barrel and make a gun pointed at you explode when the bad guy pulls the trigger. Can you explain the modification/accessory you have to his satisfaction and without getting emotional yourself or potentially raising negative emotion in them? Is having to explain that, and knowing there are no absolutes, worth whatever real or perceived advantage you have from using that equipment?

Can we also agree on what modified actually means?

Are we talking about a gun that has had work done on it by a reputable gunsmith, had the gun owner drop in some OEM parts that change the configuration but don't affect safety are we talking cosmetic modification that just make somebody look like a dick & The removal of safety because they will get you killed in the streets!

Go back to my post on "can you explain..."

High visibility sights/night sights are an easy explanation. It makes you more accurate, less risk of misses, safer for the community blah blah blah. Textured grip, easy to explain. Sweaty when nervous, makes it harder to drop, increases safety for the community (especially if it's a P320...), etc. A light, etc.

"Their" lawyer wants to paint you as a reckless jackass with a hard on to kill somebody. "Your" lawyer wants to paint you as someone who reluctantly had to take a life and who is a pillar of the community, concerned with the well-being of all.

I was asked where on the body I aimed at when I shot "X". Does that really make the difference in a good shoot/bad shoot? Of course not. But no matter what the answer, the next question is going to be "why?" I was able to truthfully answer "because that's how I was trained" and that ended it. I would never ask this as an investigator, because it's irrelevant to me. It's incredibly relevant to a lawyer looking for hooks.

Moving into the realm of hypothetical, say you took a head shot.
"Where did you aim on my client's body?"
"The head"
"Why?"

What he wants is a hook. "I wanted to kill him" is a hook. If he can get you angry or worked up and get you to answer without thinking and you say something stupid, he wins. If you say something reasonable, he just moves on. (Side note, in depositions ALWAYS take a breath before answering a question. Only answer the question. Do not elaborate on your answer once the question is answered. If they are silent, sit there and STFU, they are waiting for you to start rambling to fill the silence.)

That's the point. Any modification can be used to fish for a hook. Some are much easier than others to actually be a hook.

Etc.

The only trigger work I have done on something for carry is done by:
1) By the manufacturer (Ie Sig Custom Shop)
2) By my police armorer

There are other valid answers, but those are mine.

[BehindBlueI's]

If it is a good shoot, it is a good shoot. The tool used shouldn't make any difference if you're legally justified and can articulate why such modifications were made.

Read this: https://pistol-forum.com/showthread....efense-Firearm

Oftentimes, if not cosmetic, I would imagine that it may not even be known to be modified.

Have you ever seen a Crime Lab work up of a firearm?

[tylerw02]

Again, browsing the thread, I have yet to find a way which it turns a good shoot into a bad shoot. Especially with "tricking out an OEM trigger" as OP states. I'll eat my shirt if you can find a crime lab that recommended criminal charges based on installing an OEM Glock (-) and polishing the trigger rather than being a self-defense situation. If it makes it that far, it's been a questionable shoot in the first place.


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[blues]

Blues, thank you, sir. You explained what I was struggling to wrap my noggin around.

None of my firearms have had any modifications beyond night sights and/or an improved slide release.

My pleasure, neighbor.