What .38spl standard pressure loads will perform reasonably well out of a 2" barrell?

[BehindBlueI's]

So as of 2017, the general consensus among experienced LEO's and trauma surgeons is that the best thing that I could carry in a small, lightweight aluminum framed snubnose revolver that is still an effective man stopper while still enabling me to achieve good follow up shots is still the low powered, non-expanding flat wadcutter?

Amazing that ammo technology remains basically unchanged since the 1970's and 1980's for standard pressure .38spl.

Yes.

You're looking at a case originally designed to be loaded with black powder and fired from revolvers with longer barrels. There's only so much you can do when you have legacy components like that to build around. The new HST loaded like a wadcutter looks interesting, but I think it's also a +P load and I don't know of any reputable testing done on it yet.

Also keep in mind "low powered" is meaningless. If you don't need energy to cause expansion, you can get by with less to get satisfactory penetration. Energy =/= wounding potential.

[Jim Watson]

Wadcutters don't HAVE to be "low powered." What you get from the old line companies is the Mid-Range Wadcutter, cataloged as a 148 at 750 fps; less in a short barrel, of course. They used to load the full power wadcutter, listed as a 148 at 850 fps, same speed as the 158 roundnose of the era, but that is obsolete for the major makers.

You can get them from boutique ammo companies like Buffalo Bore. I know they do not have a spotless reputation, but who does? Test your gear.

I don't have a livestock lab or a supply of official gelatin, but I once shot some different bullets into water. The soft lead hollowpoint "FBI Load" sure expanded in water. Oops, that is +P. About which all I can say is that MY J frame Smiths will just have to look after themselves. I don't shoot a LOT of +P, just enough to know where it hits and to remind myself what it feels like.

[Concerned Citizen]

Thanks for all your replies. I've read about wadcutters and their use in J-Frames but I wasn't totally convinced that was the only answer to my problem. However, I will strongly consider carrying wadcutters in my 642 Airweight now. I will still carry the Winchester 130gr. "Train and Defend" in speedloaders or speedstrips regardless though for easy reloads. If they expand like they do in gel, that's great, if not, then they will behave similar to an FMJ, still not a bad deal.

I also understand the odds of needing a reload as a private citizen are unlikely but I don't like to play "numbers games" with my life or the lives of those I care about so I carry and practice reloads.

The problem with wadcutters though is they are hard to come by. I never see them stocked at any LGS in my area. I know I can always order them but I prefer to pay cash for such things whenever possible.

What do you think of the Winchester 148gr. "Super-X Match" WC? It had an average expansion of almost 16" in gel tests and a median velocity of 710fps out of a 2" barrel.
http://www.luckygunner.com/38spl-win...-wc-50#geltest

Any better recommendations would be appreciated.

[Willard]

Once you determine what you want, I'd recommend ammo seek (and I like the wadcutter option from snubs...yes, it is virtually impossible to find in a LGS here as well, but most ammo is cheaper online anyway if you buy enough to offset shipping costs). Here's a price per round comparison with link to purveyor:

https://ammoseek.com/ammo/38-special...?ikw=wadcutter

[Concerned Citizen]

Once you determine what you want, I'd recommend ammo seek (and I like the wadcutter option from snubs...yes, it is virtually impossible to find in a LGS here as well, but most ammo is cheaper online anyway if you buy enough to offset shipping costs). Here's a price per round comparison with link to purveyor:

https://ammoseek.com/ammo/38-special...?ikw=wadcutter

I haven't determined what I want, that's why I'm asking for recommendations. The link I posted doesn't mean I will buy from Luckygunner, I just posted it as a reference. Thanks for the link to Ammo Seek.

[Willard]

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[BehindBlueI's]

I also understand that the odds of needing a reload as a private citizen are unlikely but I don't like to play "numbers games" with my life or the lives of those I care about so I carry and practice reloads.

I've seen zero people dead from random violence with an empty revolver in their hand, for what it's worth, and seen plenty of people prevail with their j-frame/LCR/etc. That said, if you are actually worried about reload speed, why are you carrying a j-frame? Especially in the golden age of single stack 9mm small carry guns. Carrying a j-frame as a primary and worrying about reload speeds does not compute. Sort of like looking for standard pressure .38s that penetrate and expand out of a 2" barrel, you're asking it to be something it was never designed or intended to be.

[Joe in PNG]

I've seen zero people dead from random violence with an empty revolver in their hand, for what it's worth, and seen plenty of people prevail with their j-frame/LCR/etc. That said, if you are actually worried about reload speed, why are you carrying a j-frame? Especially in the golden age of single stack 9mm small carry guns. Carrying a j-frame as a primary and worrying about reload speeds does not compute. Sort of like looking for standard pressure .38s that penetrate and expand out of a 2" barrel, you're asking it to be something it was never designed or intended to be.

The difficulty of finding wadcutters, and the problem of reloads is what caused me to change from a Model 36 to a Shield for NPE carry.

[Concerned Citizen]

.....

[HCM]

As one of the few LEO's in my agency still carrying a revolver as a back up gun (BUG) I can tell you while revolvers are not obsolete, they are obsolescent. There are reasons why professional gun carriers moved on to autos. Ammunition company's development followed those contracts because that's where the money is.

The LE agencies which still allow revolvers for BUG and off duty use, including my own almost universally mandate +P ammo. To get adequate performance in the form of 12" to 18" of penetration from standard velocity 38 you have to give up expansion for penetration just as with .380 ammo.

There is also a reason why when revolvers were primary carry guns, it was common to carry two or three of them.

Snub revolvers are a compromise. They still have a niche as BUG's, especially for pocket carry or where contact shots are anticipated and primary guns in low threat environments but if I have to carry a speed loader for my J frame I would just as soon carry a second J frame.