What .38spl standard pressure loads will perform reasonably well out of a 2" barrell?

[Concerned Citizen]

Hello, first of all I would like to thank the Administrator/Moderators for letting me join. This is my first post.

My question is what, if any .38spl standard pressure JHPs will perform reasonably well out of a 2" barrel? I've seen Luckygunner's clear gel test results on his website and out of the 7 or so standard pressure loads tested only two had an acceptable combination penetration and expansion. They were the Hornady 110gr. FTX "Critical Defense" and the Winchester 130gr. "Train and Defend". Of the two, Luckygunner said the Winchesters were the better performers. These are what I've been carrying in my 642 Airweight and on a plus side they are commonly available at Walmart.

I know that clear gel tests of this sort don't tell the whole story but there doesn't seem to be much out there in standard pressure that performs well out of a 2" barrel. I would rather carry standard pressure in a lightweight aluminum frame revolver such as a 642 or LCR as I don't feel very confident in my follow up shots using +P ammo in such guns.

[eb07]

148gr wadcutters

[Concerned Citizen]

148gr wadcutters

I was specifically asking about JHPs. Wadcutters DO NOT expand.

[eb07]

I was specifically asking about JHPs. Wadcutters DO NOT expand.

A couple observations:

Clear gel is not scientific.

Wadcutters are the go to for most in standard pressure because

With few exceptions, the vast majority of .38 Sp JHP's fail to expand when fired from 2" barrels in the 4 layer denim test.

Read this post for more details to go with above quote:


https://pistol-forum.com/showthread....0-ACP-vs-38-Sp

Looks like the hornaday is your bullet

[UNK]

eb07 beat me to it.

[Concerned Citizen]

A couple observations:

Clear gel is not scientific.

Wadcutters are the go to for most in standard pressure because



Read this post for more details to go with above quote:


https://pistol-forum.com/showthread....0-ACP-vs-38-Sp

Looks like the hornaday is your bullet

Yes, I know that clear gel testing isn't the be all and end all of everything. Neither is anything else except for real world shootings. However, if a bullet consistently fails to expand in a 4-layer denim clear gel test or in any other type of test then that's a fairly good indication it will not expand in the real world either.

The test results in your article and the writing of the article itself appear to have been done long ago, during the 1980's and 1990's. So you're telling me that as of late 2017, there are still no .38spl standard pressure JHPs with acceptable performance out of a 2" barrel? There are a few modern .380acp JHPs that have exhibited decent performance out of a short barrel but nothing in .38spl? Really? I'm not convinced of that.

"With few exceptions, the vast majority of .38 Sp JHP's fail to expand when fired from 2" barrels in the 4 layer denim test."

OK, then I want to find out what those few exceptions are. I think I've found two of them, I was just asking if there were any others that I'm unaware of.

I do not want wadcutters because they do not expand, are too difficult to load quickly and are not commonly available in my area.

[Malamute]

There are several other discussions about loads for 2" barrel guns, including firsthand observations from a number of people that have examined people shot with wadcutters and other loads. this is not just hot stove league commentary or youtube hobbyists. The exceptions also tend to not expand reliably in colder weather, meaning they are right on the ragged edge of reliable function, and is one contributing factor as to why some people prefer the wadcutters and their predictable behavior. Some carry other loads for reloads, because they are easier to load the gun with in speed loaders or speedstrips.

[BehindBlueI's]

I do not want wadcutters because they do not expand and are too difficult to load quickly and are not commonly available in my area.

You are asking for a unicorn. The .38 case has a lot of volume. That takes more powder to fill enough space for reliable and consistent ignition, which requires a slower burning powder to stay in standard pressure, which performs poorly in short barrels. The answer is either +P or a deep seated bullet, hence the wadcutter. If you read the link provided, the Barnes all copper bullet is the only standard pressure .38 that DocGKR says provides both expansion and adequate penetration.

Worrying about rapid reloading with a j-frame is like worrying about the high speed cornering ability of a dump truck. It's not what it's designed for and other metrics apply in choosing the right one.

"Slow" is irrelevant. A fast wadcutter would over penetrate a ton.

So, your options are:

The Barnes 110 gr all copper (if anyone still makes a standard pressure version)
A "+P" offering
Wadcutters

[Concerned Citizen]

The exceptions also tend to not expand reliably in colder weather, meaning they are right on the ragged edge of reliable function, and is one contributing factor as to why some people prefer the wadcutters and their predictable behavior.

Colder weather isn't an issue as I only carry my 642 Airweight during the summer months. I carry something more robust during the rest of the year here.

Some carry other loads for reloads, because they are easier to load the gun with in speed loaders or speedstrips.

Gotcha, that is something I didn't think about.

So as of 2017, the general consensus among experienced LEO's and trauma surgeons is that the best thing that I could carry in a small, lightweight aluminum framed snubnose revolver that is still an effective man stopper while still enabling me to achieve good follow up shots is still the low powered, non-expanding flat wadcutter?

Amazing that ammo technology remains basically unchanged since the 1980's for standard pressure .38spl.

[Malamute]

Yes, thats probably not an unresonable conclusion. Not everyone comes to that exact conculsion, but a fair number do.

The cold weather thing may not be a consideration directly, but as I mentioned, is an indicator its operating at the ragged edge of reliable expansion. So, some choose the reliable results of full wadcutters.

I'll see if I can find some of the other threads, but I'm beat right now. If you want to search them try "loads for snub revolvers" or similar. If it doesnt turn up in an in-house search, search with a google search, and after entering the search terms, type siteistol-forum.com in the google search bar and it will only use results from here.

For some reason the search term is turning into a smiley. If you type "site" then " : " then "pistol-forum.com" with no spaces it will only use P-F results.

Here, there were several promising looking results. Ive rarely been disappointed in looking for good information.

https://www.google.com/search?q=load...hrome&ie=UTF-8

I think if you study the matter and conclude to use some sort of hollowpoint, nobody will make fun of you (unless its RIP or somesuch), but I also wouldnt write off wadcutters without looking at some of the discussions about them and other loads. There just doesnt seem to be a hands down, "This is the one" load that is universally agreed over for 2" use.