Punisher Skull on a Self Defense Firearm

[MistWolf]

I have a couple of very specific questions. Please, no "what ifs", no speculations. Just real cases and first hand experiences.

Will having a Punisher Skull or similar motif on a firearm prejudice an investigator, District Attorney's office or jury against you?

Have there been cases where having a Punisher Skull or similar motif, on a firearm used in self defense, harmed the credibility of the person claiming self defense?

I'm asking because of a discussion I was foolish enough to get involved in on another forum. The prevailing opinion is that one should avoid such motifs like the plague because it will be used against you. That it gives the perception that you wanted to live out some vigilante fantasy.

My contention is that, if it's a good shoot, the skull won't matter. If it's not a good shoot, not having the skull won't matter. That if your skull decorated firearm is on full display in court, you screwed up.

I don't advocate decorating firearms with skulls. But I think that by the time you find yourself on trial for a shooting, there are other extenuating circumstances and the skull motif is the least of your worries. Or, am I off my rocker?

[PD Sgt.]

If it is a good shoot it should not matter, that does not mean it will not matter.

I have investigated hundreds of shootings, were I to find a Punisher logo on the firearm of a shooter I will likely look at their statement with a bit more skepticism than usual. It will not affect my final decision based on facts and evidence but it will certainly be in the back of my mind. It may also be in the mind of Grand Jurors, not many of whom have the benefit of my experience, nor are they professionally accountable.

The other thing to bear in mind is that in addition to criminal charges there will likely be civil action. The standard of proof is much lower in civil court, you can be compelled to testify, and appearance is much more important as the facts become less so.

In light of the fact logos and motifs add no performance or accuracy to the weapon and are more of a personal statement, they are probably better left off serious use firearms.

[Cypher]

I have a couple of very specific questions. Please, no "what ifs", no speculations. Just real cases and first hand experiences.

Will having a Punisher Skull or similar motif on a firearm prejudice an investigator, District Attorney's office or jury against you?

Have there been cases where having a Punisher Skull or similar motif, on a firearm used in self defense, harmed the credibility of the person claiming self defense?

I'm asking because of a discussion I was foolish enough to get involved in on another forum. The prevailing opinion is that one should avoid such motifs like the plague because it will be used against you. That it gives the perception that you wanted to live out some vigilante fantasy.

My contention is that, if it's a good shoot, the skull won't matter. If it's not a good shoot, not having the skull won't matter. That if your skull decorated firearm is on full display in court, you screwed up.

I don't advocate decorating firearms with skulls. But I think that by the time you find yourself on trial for a shooting, there are other extenuating circumstances and the skull motif is the least of your worries. Or, am I off my rocker?

There was a Cop in I think Texas who had a personal AR15 as a patrol rifle. It had. "You're Screwed" on the dust cover. It ended up biting him in the ass.

[PNWTO]

Wasn't there an Alberquerque SWAT Officer that got burned after an OIS because he had a dustcover that stated "You're Fucked"? I don't think it was a decisive factor but it still was a factor on the legitimacy of his shoot. Someone here probably knows the case better than I.

That said, the hardest part of having a punisher skull on your gun is coming out of the closet.

EDIT: Corrections below, thank you gents.

[Sero Sed Serio]

I have a couple of very specific questions. Please, no "what ifs", no speculations. Just real cases and first hand experiences.

Will having a Punisher Skull or similar motif on a firearm prejudice an investigator, District Attorney's office or jury against you?

Have there been cases where having a Punisher Skull or similar motif, on a firearm used in self defense, harmed the credibility of the person claiming self defense?

I'm asking because of a discussion I was foolish enough to get involved in on another forum. The prevailing opinion is that one should avoid such motifs like the plague because it will be used against you. That it gives the perception that you wanted to live out some vigilante fantasy.

My contention is that, if it's a good shoot, the skull won't matter. If it's not a good shoot, not having the skull won't matter. That if your skull decorated firearm is on full display in court, you screwed up.

I don't advocate decorating firearms with skulls. But I think that by the time you find yourself on trial for a shooting, there are other extenuating circumstances and the skull motif is the least of your worries. Or, am I off my rocker?

https://www.google.com/amp/www.thetr...-in-court/amp/

Prosecutors are taught to create a theme that they can repeat to the jury that explains, in a few words, what the defendant did and why they deserve to be punished. I can almost guarantee the theme in this case is going to be some variation of "you're fucked," and the jury will be talking about that a lot more than they will about the suspect ignoring commands or the other relevant facts.

Another problem is that the investigating officers are going to be making value judgments based on their early observations that may color the lens through which they see a case, right or wrong. If something makes them think you were looking for a reason, right, wrong or indifferent they make look at additional evidence with a degree of confirmation bias.

Bottom line is there's no reason for the cutesy add-ons on a defensive weapon, but they can come back to bite you in a big way.

[Sero Sed Serio]

Wasn't there an Alberquerque SWAT Officer that got burned after an OIS because he had a dustcover that stated "You're Fucked"? I don't think it was a decisive factor but it still was a factor on the legitimacy of his shoot. Someone here probably knows the case better than I.

That said, the hardest part of having a punisher skull on your gun is coming out of the closet.

The one I posted was a Mesa, AZ patrol Officer. Did ABQ have one, too?

[Chance]

Wasn't there an Alberquerque SWAT Officer that got burned after an OIS because he had a dustcover that stated "You're Fucked"?

Mesa, Arizona.

[randy dragon]

Steven Harris (attorney with relevant experience) wrote a good article on the subject, among other modifications, at the Modern Service Weapons blog. He has a bunch of good articles over there, actually, I'd recommend reading when you have time.

"LEGAL RAMIFICATIONS OF HANDGUN MODIFICATIONS AND NON-FACTORY STANDARD REPLACEMENT PARTS"
http://modernserviceweapons.com/?p=6896

[Gray222]

Show me a court case where the deciding factor was a modification on a firearm. I'm not talking about something really stupid like "hello fuckface" "wait for the flash" or something stupid like that, likely that can be used against a person. I'm talking about trigger weight, barrel color, modifications like an Agency Glock or something like that. I've yet to a see single case posted.

Fact is, if it is a good shoot, it's a good shoot, having a modification other than a stupid phrase or something clearly racist/etc on it is not going to make it a bad shoot all of a sudden, and if that's the point of contention, show me evidence via such cases.

[-ad-]

Will having a Punisher Skull or similar motif on a firearm prejudice an investigator, District Attorney's office or jury against you?

My take on it that humans are unpredictable, and there's no set answer - and it's more about probabilities and risk management. The best I can come up with is that there will be a % of a chance that it might affect prejudice of an investigator, DA or Jury - no definitive yes or no because everyone is different.

However - I do think it's safe to say that it would not have any chance of having a positive influence for you.

IMO I figure the chance of having to deploy and fire your firearm is remarkably low. Then the chance of this lining up with people who might be prejudice against you for the logo would also be low - which compounds to be a fairly low chance. But it's still not zero.

Which leaves that there's a chance that it could have a negative influence. The decision then rests on what you think that chance might be, and whether you believe the benefit of having it on the firearm outweighs the potential risk. This comes down to personal choice and opinions.


So really - in the end you just have to ask yourself "Do you feel lucky... punk"