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Thread: Lehigh has changed my idea of a field pistol

  1. #441
    Member 10mmfanboy's Avatar
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    I think the best attribute to look for in a woods gun is something you can shoot fast and keep tracking your sights fast. And remember to lead the animal even if it is running straight towards you. Barrel length matters too, as well as sight radius.

  2. #442
    Since I will be mostly in Alaska and Montana for a while, I got my Underwood Lehigh ammo out. First, I checked zero on the Underwood 115+P at 20 yards, in an X Compact upper with a Romeo 1 Pro that I recently got. I saw my first and second shot, but then it looked like I was missing a few holes. This is the target -- guess this Sig likes this load. Hits a bit right of the 147 HST it is zeroed for.

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    Here it is.

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    Then I shot the same load at 20 yards in a 365XL that was zeroed for 115 Gold Dot.

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    Likes pretty much everything in every caliber.

  3. #443
    Member Phaedrus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ECVMatt View Post
    For some reason this story has always haunted me:

    https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-...r13-story.html

    I guess because it could have been adverted by a being armed, because I have a daughter and can only imagine her horror at the end, or because I am mystified by peoples desire to reintroduce wolves to the lower 48.

    This is a fraught subject to be sure. I moved to Montana from Idaho a few years ago, and both there and here wolves are a topic of heated debate. The introduction of non-native Canadian wolves to Idaho decimated the ungulate population, of that there's no doubt. But native wolves were once, are now, and in the future will be important parts of the ecosystem. I grew up in a small town that was basically farmers and ranchers; both of those groups seemed to feel wild animals were merely a nuisance, "freeloaders" that cut into their profits. Me, I'm a conservationist but not really an "Earth Muffin" or treehugger. Yet I don't subscribe to the view that humans own the Earth lock, stock and barrel. Quite the opposite, she owns us! We're part of this world, not the only important species.

    There are times when I tired of needing to store my food in a bear canister and it would be nice to be able to eat dinner in camp without fear of a Grizzly pulling me out of my sleeping bag that night. But the Grizzly also belongs here. He was here before me and will here after I'm gone. Same for wolves. I don't know how much overlap this forum has between shooters and woodsmen/women; probably there's is a good amount of folks into both.

    Personally, I don't think I could go through the motions of wearing human clothes, doing my taxes and going to work without The Wild. It's part of us, as big a part of us that one that builds suburbs and puts bumper stickers on our SUVs. Most "civilized" humans have totally forgotten that we're animals. But The Wild will disabuse one of that notion very quickly. I can't live in a world without The Wild, nor would I want to.
    I would rather have questions that can't be answered than answers that can't be questioned. - Richard Feynman
    When I give food to the poor, they call me a saint. When I ask why they are poor, they call me a communist.- Archbishop Helder Câmara

  4. #444
    A difference between Alaska and Idaho/Wyoming/Montana is how grizzly bears interact with humans. In Alaska, where the bears have been hunted for years, the bears most often give humans a wide berth. In the lower 48, where the bears have not been hunted for years, they seem less concerned by humans.
    Likes pretty much everything in every caliber.

  5. #445
    Member Phaedrus's Avatar
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    Very true! I think we should allow some- some!- Grizzly permits here in MT. We really have LOT of them here. Limited hunting is still enough to let bears realize we're an apex predator and to be avoided. A big issue here is that some bears associate the sound of a gun shot with dinner. It can be dangerous to skin out and quarter an elk here especially if you're alone. We have a lot of wolves but I don't give them a thought. They're very wary of humans. The incredibly rare wolf attack is usually a jogger or mountain biker; if you run it triggers their prey drive and I think bikes confuse them. If a wolf does attack I watched Liam Neeson in The Grey so I know how to handle them!
    I would rather have questions that can't be answered than answers that can't be questioned. - Richard Feynman
    When I give food to the poor, they call me a saint. When I ask why they are poor, they call me a communist.- Archbishop Helder Câmara

  6. #446
    Wolves sometimes are not all that wary of people.

    Here is a link to a short film clip called "Lost River". Yes, thats where my internet handle comes from. No I have nothing to do with the film. The reason for linking the clip is that the two brothers in the film are Kevin and Kieran Donahue. Twin brothers, cowboys who grew up ranching in the area. Kieran is actually the Sheriff of Canyon County just outside of Boise now. I have actually never met Kieran, and only know Kevin.

    But anyways, his brother Kevin runs cows on my place sometimes and loses cattle to wolves. As it happens he was running cows through my place one time and stopped to chat and was showing the scars on his saddle. He actually had scars on his saddle where a wolf tried to take him out of his saddle while he was in it. He was showing me, my dad and daughter. He said it was literally the only time in over ten years he was riding without a gun and he had a few surround his horse and one came in and tried that. It sounded like it was a pretty exciting event while on the back of a horse!

    Had I not seen it personally I would not have believed that one, but I was looking at the proof.


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RnWBxctBSWw

    My closest cabin neighbor does predator control for the next ranch down and I know that a few years back they lost three 500 pound steers to wolves. those were brought down maybe a 1/2 mile from my place.

    All the more reason to always have a gun. I have spent a BUNCH of time in MT lately and was just speaking with someone via PM and the things people do, I swear they are baiting the bears and ASKING to get their asses chomped on. I was just in mountains outside Livingston and the crap people do is stunning. Fortunately most of them are shaped like pears, so that is good. My only hope is that when the Grizzlies come to the smell of sushi (or whatever horrible stuff it was the ladies were eating) they skip the old grouchy guy and go straight for the penguin shaped tourists.
    “Those who control the present, control the past and those who control the past control the future.”

    ― George Orwell, 1984

  7. #447
    Member Phaedrus's Avatar
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    I'd wager the wolf was attacking the horse and was scarcely aware of the rider. Grab your rifle and try to walk up on a wolf and shoot it. I'll wait! When they need to cull 'em they mostly shoot 'em from aircraft. It's difficult to get close to a wolf in 99.8% of circumstances. Yeah, I'm aware people successfully hunt them but it's a challenge, at least around here.
    Last edited by Phaedrus; 06-18-2021 at 09:56 PM.
    I would rather have questions that can't be answered than answers that can't be questioned. - Richard Feynman
    When I give food to the poor, they call me a saint. When I ask why they are poor, they call me a communist.- Archbishop Helder Câmara

  8. #448
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    Quote Originally Posted by ECVMatt View Post
    For some reason this story has always haunted me:

    https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-...r13-story.html

    I guess because it could have been adverted by a being armed, because I have a daughter and can only imagine her horror at the end, or because I am mystified by peoples desire to reintroduce wolves to the lower 48.
    No, it's quite unlikely this particular incident could have been averted if the victim was armed. If the story is accurate and she was jogging with her ipod ear buds in, she likely never knew what was happening till they were on her. If she had survived she would swear they "just came out of no where."

    I've read the same story many times in sexual assault reports only the wolves looked like people. Awareness, avoidance and deterrence aren't just for the city. Predation is predation.

    Check out some of the material from Craig Douglas, Tom Givens and the late Dr. William Aprill on awareness, criminal targeting and unequal initiative encounters.

    Either someone failed to school her on the dangers of real wilderness or she failed to heed the lesson.

  9. #449
    Quote Originally Posted by Phaedrus View Post
    I'd wager the wolf was attacking the horse and was scarcely aware of the rider. Grab your rifle and try to walk up on a wolf and shoot it. I'll wait! When they need to cull 'em they mostly shoot 'em from aircraft. It's difficult to get close to a wolf in 99.8% of circumstances. Yeah, I'm aware people successfully hunt them but it's a challenge, at least around here.
    I will let Kevin know that the wolf trying to pull him out of his saddle really did not know he was there and was actually scared of him..

    Perhaps I should also let my elderly father know (who also lives in central Idaho in an area that has a very high density of wolves) that the one he shot with his .45 ACP Glock was actually scared of him too..

    As far as this goes " Grab your rifle and try to walk up on a wolf and shoot it. I'll wait! "

    I don't think me or my family needs to try real hard in that department either.



    “Those who control the present, control the past and those who control the past control the future.”

    ― George Orwell, 1984

  10. #450
    Member Phaedrus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lost River View Post
    I will let Kevin know that the wolf trying to pull him out of his saddle really did not know he was there and was actually scared of him..
    I don't know if I need type slower or use smaller words. I never said the wolf of afraid of him! Does he ride around with a pork chop in his pocket? I'm glad he was unharmed, that's awesome. The fact remains that bees kill many times more humans each year than wolves. They're not saints or benevolent spirits but I'm sure you know that for every human a wolf kills 20 are killed by domestic cows. There's a potential for many animals to hurt or kill a human; respect them but don't live in fear.
    I would rather have questions that can't be answered than answers that can't be questioned. - Richard Feynman
    When I give food to the poor, they call me a saint. When I ask why they are poor, they call me a communist.- Archbishop Helder Câmara

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