Lehigh has changed my idea of a field pistol

[JonInWA]

An interesting intermediate/dual-purpose route would be to judiciously choose between your normal qualified (DocGKR vetted) carry load, and then to have a back-up magazine of Underwood Lehigh Xtreme Penetrator.

The Underwood Lehigh Xtreme Defender is another interesting alternative; that's my choice in .45 ACP (generally carried in my Gen3 Glock G21).

For 9mm and .40, I'm more likely to have a vetted "normal" carry load and a magazine of Xtreme Penetrator; I'll situationally decide which will be loaded in the gun and which will be my back-up magazine.

For .357 magnum, my current normal carry load is 158 gr Federal Hydra-Shok, and hunting/hunting back-up is Hornaday Custom XTP 158 gr; Hornaday has just introduced a new line of handgun hunting ammunition, but information on it is pretty sketchy, so I'm not sure how it compares to their concurrently offered Custom XTP.

As I live, hunt and hike in the Pacific Northwest, I'm comfortable with these choices for protection against predators in my AOs.

Best, Jon

Quick follow-up: I just got off the phone with one of the Hornaday Tech Reps, and asked about the new .357 magnum 130 gr MonoFlex Handgun Hunter compared to the 158 gr Custom XTP; essentially from our conversation it sounds like it's a solid copper bullet option for areas that do not allow lead bullets, and that the 130 gr GMX bullet used (solid copper with an elastomer plug in the hollow point) will provide equivalent terminal performance to the 158 gr Custom XTP, with particularly good through-and-through penetration performance.

Detailed technical/performance information on the Handgun Hunter cartridges Hornaday website is currently sketchy, as their R&D hasn't released their results yet, at least for publication; the rep said they'll likely be out within the next month to month and a half.

Best, Jon

[Lester Polfus]

Quick follow-up: I just got off the phone with one of the Hornaday Tech Reps, and asked about the new .357 magnum 130 gr MonoFlex Handgun Hunter compared to the 158 gr Custom XTP; essentially from our conversation it sounds like it's a solid copper bullet option for areas that do not allow lead bullets, and that the 130 gr GMX bullet used (solid copper with an elastomer plug in the hollow point) will provide equivalent terminal performance to the 158 gr Custom XTP, with particularly good through-and-through penetration performance.

Detailed technical/performance information on the Handgun Hunter cartridges Hornaday website is currently sketchy, as their R&D hasn't released their results yet, at least for publication; the rep said they'll likely be out within the next month to month and a half.

Best, Jon

I appreciate that. I've been watching that development with interest. As we've discussed in other threads, I've been exploring all copper options for all my firearms I might used to hunt.

As an aside, Barnes 140 grain bullet seems to offer great performance. It is loaded by Barnes, Remington and Federal as factory loadings. On Ammoseek, I find that I can often buy the factory "Hog Hammer" ammo for less than what it cost to assemble the loads myself.

I've not had a chance to kill anything with it.

I'm not sure the Hornady offering will give us anything the Barnes doesn't, but more competition in the marketplace is always good.

[JonInWA]

Agreed; all of my experience with these hunting/wilderness cartridges has been with Hornaday and Underwood Lehigh; since I've been satisfied with them, and my overall use/exposure is relative low, I haven't personally felt compelled to explore Barnes or other potential alternatives, at least to date. Your (and needless to say, other p-f members') info shares are great-thanks.

Best, Jon

[Old Man Winter]

How hard are they to kill? They look just like big dogs...…

Or is it their numbers/pack behavior?

Wolves are not mythical beasts unless we're talking about Fenrir, Sköll, and Hati Hróðvitnisson.

The rule I've read is don't shoot one unless you have enough ammo for all of them. Draw blood on one, and the rest will die before they stop trying to kill you.

Almost certainly on 24HourCampfire. As I recall, the discussion was about getting treed by a pack. Just wait for them to lose interest, and they'll eventually go away. If you shoot one, the rest will hang out next to their dead friend for days (indefinitely/as long as it takes) waiting for you to climb or fall down. At least that was the consensus. I don't know for sure where the info came from, but of the people over there who spend time out in the woods putting bullets in meat, I don't remember any of them saying it was a bad operating principle.

I've spent a fair amount of time around wolves in the lower 48, Alaska, and several areas throughout Canada. I've hunted wolves a number of times and encountered them while hunting other animals countless times. Seen a fair number of wolves killed out of packs and not once did the pack stick around or circle back to take on the hunters standing next to their dead pack members.

Speaking of being tree'd, I was bow hunting whitetails out of tree stand when five wolves came through. They knew exactly where I was and spent a little too much time checking me out. Killed one and the others wasted no time running off.

As with any wild animal encounter your milage may vary.

[Alpha Sierra]

Wolves are not mythical beasts unless we're talking about Fenrir, Sköll, and Hati Hróðvitnisson.

I've spent a fair amount of time around wolves in the lower 48, Alaska, and several areas throughout Canada. I've hunted wolves a number of times and encountered them while hunting other animals countless times. Seen a fair number of wolves killed out of packs and not once did the pack stick around or circle back to take on the hunters standing next to their dead pack members.

Speaking of being tree'd, I was bow hunting whitetails out of tree stand when five wolves came through. They knew exactly where I was and spent a little too much time checking me out. Killed one and the others wasted no time running off.

As with any wild animal encounter your milage may vary.

From my admittedly ignorant POV, wolves look no harder to kill than a German Shepherd, Husky, or any other semi large dog. Meaning not hard to kill at all.

Which is why I asked when someone said "wolves are another matter" or something like that.

[GJM]

From my admittedly ignorant POV, wolves look no harder to kill than a German Shepherd, Husky, or any other semi large dog. Meaning not hard to kill at all.

Which is why I asked when someone said "wolves are another matter" or something like that.

If you have ever been near a wild wolf, and reflected on their size and athleticism, you would understand why wolves would think “humans don’t look hard to kill at all.” A single pack of wolves can move a large herd of caribou many miles.

[Alpha Sierra]

If you have ever been near a wild wolf, and reflected on their size and athleticism, you would understand why wolves would think “humans don’t look hard to kill at all.”

I'm sure a wolf would think so. Right up to the second the bullet rips him apart inside.

[Grey]

From my admittedly ignorant POV, wolves look no harder to kill than a German Shepherd, Husky, or any other semi large dog. Meaning not hard to kill at all.

Which is why I asked when someone said "wolves are another matter" or something like that.

If your husky or GS is pushing 150lbs then that is probably a decent comparison. Ive have had or been around huskys and GS and they arent as big as the wolves I have seen on average. Wolves are BIG.

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[El Cid]

I'm sure a wolf would think so. Right up to the second the bullet rips him apart inside.

Seriously? What’s your experience with them? I put stock in what GJM says because I know he’s in the environment where wolf encounters are common. Remember animals don’t stop just because they realize they’ve been shot. And this thread is about handguns which are notoriously ineffective at dropping large aggressive predators (2 legged or 4). I think you may be overestimating your handgun.

[Lost River]

Seriously? What’s your experience with them? I put stock in what GJM says because I know he’s in the environment where wolf encounters are common. Remember animals don’t stop just because they realize they’ve been shot. And this thread is about handguns which are notoriously ineffective at dropping large aggressive predators (2 legged or 4). I think you may be overestimating your handgun.

Not to mention that they are pack animals and they attack in numbers.

Theory vs reality..