Current State of the RDS for Carbines

[psalms144.1]

Yes, EOTech/L3 communications has shown to have dubious business practices in the past. That doesn't sit well with me either. Playing Devil's advocate for a second, they did acknowledge the issue and consequently fix it, and thus far, fixed it pretty well. They also did a full-on and straight-up recall and offered a buy back to their customers, which IMHO, is better than some other companies that have handled their more recent blunders.


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They DID acknowledge the issue AFTER our investigation proved they had been INTENTIONALLY not reporting the failure mode for about a decade. And if we hadn't had a witness walk in with inside info on the defects (plural, and numerous), we might still not know what's going on.

I've heard from folks I trust that the newest EOTechs are nearly as good as competitors, but, after sorting through the data we saw, I won't give them any more of my money, ever. Sometimes a company needs a kick in the nuts.

Just my opinion, of course, and worth precisely what you paid for it.

I do agree that their buyback recall was well executed, but, it was that or fold the brand, frankly, based on the bad press.

[psalms144.1]

EOTech in their own words (emphasis added):



So, basically, at any temperature the sight may experience thermal drift.

I realize someone was wanting to make sure they covered all the bases, but damn.

That description is pretty much EXACTLY what we found through our investigation - and what they knew from early 2000s. We found zero shift with a temperature difference as small as 6 degrees F. Part of the cause is the science of holography, and the effect of the projected laser as its subjected to various ambient temperatures. A REALLY smart scientist explained it to us - and it made sense when he said it, but I could never hope to explain it here (I just ask the questions and record the answers!)

[dfeder530]

After going through the study and watching the video, it would appear that the newly improved EOTech has the best performance in regards to zero shift. I was surprised at the results of the other major brands, and now I'm wondering why their massive MOA deviation shifts aren't being highlighted as more of an issue?

[rob_s]

A number of my buddies are using the MRO on PCC a rifles in USPSA. Compared to the C-More, it is better in the rain, has better battery life, holds zero better, while still giving quite a bit of display for a relatively small frame. My number two PCC has the MRO. My favorite is the Leupold LCO, which has an even bigger display. Max Leograndis, PCC national champion, uses the LCO and refers to it as the "Swarovski of red dots."

We'll, based on MSRP OF $900+ I'd say the comparison to Swarovski is at least on point re: price!

What sets the LCO apart as compared to a 30mm Aimpoint or an Eotech EXPS?

[bravo7]

You can get the LCO for just over 600 now.

[GJM]

We'll, based on MSRP OF $900+ I'd say the comparison to Swarovski is at least on point re: price!

What sets the LCO apart as compared to a 30mm Aimpoint or an Eotech EXPS?

Enormous display.

[Wake27]

Can this not be another EOTech business practice thread? Doesn't really relate to the current state as the title suggests. I liked my EXPS-3, ditched it to try an LPVO. T-2 is still on my HD rifle and is the gold standard IMO, however, the T-1 had pretty significant issues in that test, as did the MRO IIRC. I want to try the LCO, but I just don't get what makes it so great and worth the price, plus my one and only experience with Leupold and their CS wasn't bad, but wasn't really great either. It's nice to see that budget red dots have come a long way.

For me, my biggest question is whether I can be as fast and accurate with an LPVO as I can with a red dot.


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[jwperry]

One of my friends just bought one of these(I can't remember where) for under $300.

https://www.sigsauer.com/store/romeo4h-1x20-mm.html

It has the much loved EOTech circle/dot reticle, as well as a couple other reticle settings, as well as 2 different mounts and a 50,000hr battery life claim. The mounts felt cheap when handling and they looked like they'd fit the Aimpoint micro mount footprint. No confirmation on that though, neither of us currently own an Aimpoint micro to confirm. We put 240 rounds through it the first time out at the range and it didn't seem to drift after the initial zero. Time will tell.

I'm currently running an RMR RM06 on a Scalarworks Mount. After fixing the dot blinking issues (mine is a gen 1) I don't see switching to another red dot. The FOV sucks, but it works for how I shoot and the lifestyle I live. Plus it is light...like I can't tell when it is on or off the gun for balancing light. Don't bother with a lower 1/3 cowitness if you really want to cowitness with irons, the FOW won't allow it.

[Clusterfrack]

A number of my buddies are using the MRO on PCC a rifles in USPSA. Compared to the C-More, it is better in the rain, has better battery life, holds zero better, while still giving quite a bit of display for a relatively small frame. My number two PCC has the MRO. My favorite is the Leupold LCO, which has an even bigger display. Max Leograndis, PCC national champion, uses the LCO and refers to it as the "Swarovski of red dots."

Totally agree. I like the MRO a lot. LCO is awesome but twice the weight.

I have zero confidence in anything made by C-More.

[rob_s]

Can this not be another EOTech business practice thread?

As the OP of the thread, I find it extremely relevant and am glad to see their business practices as part of the discussion. Part of the "current state" is that they appear to be rather shady, and some people would prefer not to do business with shady entities.

That said, I think we've established the history pretty well and probably don't need to beat on the horse.