SIG hits another ball out of the park...

[muther_beetches]

if its gonna stay in the chassis, then great, it just sucks a little less. i bet it still ends up being more expensive than a used ruger pc-9 or pc-40, without the added benefit of increased velocity, potentially enhanced terminal ballistics and more recoil management.

as for the compact size, yer basically adding weight, size and money at a perfectly good pistol and saying that its something other than a pistol with a dot. unless i train with it more than i do my pistol, my presentations are not going to be as quick or intuitive and i sure as heck wont find my dot as fast as the standard pistol sights that i've put tens of thousands of rounds through. shot an open gun once and spent most of the time trying to adjust my grip to catch the dot in my field of view. finding a dot at arms length with out the benefit of a stockweld is not necessarily easy if yer not doing it all the time. and the chintzy wire stock they have wont do half the job a real pistol caliber carbine or subgun stock would do.

if all you've got is your pistol, then your money is much better spent on more ammo and another afhf class.

[TGS]

if all you've got is your pistol, then your money is much better spent on more ammo and another afhf class.

Come on, Todd. You gotta agree with that one especially

[ToddG]

What I agree with is muther's general statement that the gun you train with all the time will be better than the one you never train with. I'm not suggesting that the SIG ACP will immediately buy skill. I'm not even saying it's a sure thing that the ACP will work. I'm just saying that, contrary to the kneejerk reaction many are having, it will be interesting to see what this thing is capable of.

[jlw]

I'm not looking at it from the standpoint of an on-again/off-again conversion. I'm imagining taking a pistol, this thing, and making a dedicated semi-permanent solution out of it. It's tiny compared to any (effective & reliable) carbine, has magazine compatibility with your pistol if you choose to set it up as such, etc.

Or imagine a G20 set up like this with an extended mag (Arredondos are good for +5 I believe). I can store it in a much smaller space and literally bridge the gap between a pistol and a SBR.

All of this assumes it works as advertised, obviously, but I'm actually interested to take a look at it during SHOT.

With the Glocks you can get a detachable shoulder stock that inserts into the debris channel of the grip. It take a few seconds to install and detach. You can even collapse the stock while attached and holster the pistol. The contraption in this thread doesn't allow for any of this.

I have one of the detachable stocks for my issued G18c. It makes a neat little subgun package and allows for controllable full auto fire bursts. Other than that, it really isn't all that useful.

[Yute]

I can see the role of a PDW-sized weapon for motor units... But if you're going to go down the trouble of that SBR route, then why not get a real PDW or a SBR patrol carbine?

[Slavex]

This isn't a knee jerk reaction from me, we've been playing with conversion kits like this up here for awhile now. If a dedicated pistol stays in it, then your zero issues should be slim. However with the kits the guys up here run, taking a gun in and out of the stock makes huge differences in POA vs POI. not worth the lawsuit. As well, they are known to cause function issues with the pistols in them. Add in using a DA/SA pistol in there and the hammer being left back? awesome. The only time I saw one of these that really got me interested was the folding one from Magpul. now that was cool. It's a flashlight then BAM it's a gun!

[Maple Syrup Actual]

I would pretty much echo Rob's comments in that since there are no issues with SBR/AOW stuff up here, we see this kind of thing quite a bit.

My general experience is that they are fun range toys, but as a Glock user, the idea of a sort of carbine with a Glock trigger and no external safeties makes me a little skeptical.

On the other hand I will also admit that as a G20 shooter, having a pop-in stock has occasionally been kind of cool. As previously stated, with a 6" barrel and, say, a kydex trigger cover...okay, maybe. But the practical application of this particular item...really not seeing it.

For the record the stock I used was a loaner from someone else and my impression was that it was a Glock factory item, although now I don't recall exactly. The tactical clamshell gun enlargers seem far more pointless to me...that's a very awkward approach to what is effectively "a place to put a red dot".

[WDW]

The time it would take to plug a pistol into that chassis completely negates its benefits. That set up may be useful in 1 out of 1000 situations when an officer actually had time to set it up.

[GearScout]

A benefit of one of these in a law enforcement setting is the ability to buy one firearm and use it in several different roles.

Stop thinking like shooters and think like bean counters in a small town PD.

The best use for these wouldn't be the quick change scenario. As many have pointed out, building a gun like this under pressure is not going to fly.

Just leave a handful of pistols installed and dedicated to these carbine housings. This offers an option that a rack of ARs doesn't. Instead of spending $1200-1500 on dedicated carbines that will live in a rack, a department can replace them with a less expensive pistols that can be removed from the housing and rotated through different roles should the need arise. The departments won't have rifle rounds, but they will gain increases in versatility and accuracy thanks to rails and stocks.

Also consider the cost savings when a PD has near 100% parts commonality between pistols and carbines; they don't have to stock spare AR parts or send an armorer to another school.

If a department has 3 platforms, pistol, rifle, shotgun, and you can effectively remove one of those lines from a budget and replace it with a $300 housing, you'd be tempted. Granted handgun rounds are not as effective as rifle rounds, but cost savings can be a powerful motivator. Not a fair trade, but I'll bet this is the pitch we'll hear at Sigs booth next week.

[mnealtx]

If a department has 3 platforms, pistol, rifle, shotgun, and you can effectively remove one of those lines from a budget and replace it with a $300 housing, you'd be tempted.

If all three platforms are already paid for - why would they be tempted when there's no advantage over the existing rifle or shotgun?