Unarmed response to knife attacks or similar

[orionz06]

What is optimal?

MUC'ing like a mofo. Running away.

In order to discuss this stuff we have to accept that getting away freely isn't an option. Once we're at that point, survival is the new optimal. If we have a choice I choose Netflix at home in my boxers.

I had seen BJJ (and wrestling) brought up in this thread and IMHO it's dangerous to bring up those tactics as a way to deal with a knife attack. It seems that there is a universal understanding that BJJ would likely not prevent at least some stabbing / cutting and since any stabbing / cutting could be potentially lethal I don't think it should be considered as a viable tool in this situation?

Knife attacks are dangerous, doing nothing is dangerous. What is less dangerous?

Meh, this is coming across more contentious than necessary. My takeaway is: please consider that if you're unarmed in a knife attack that you can still get very badly hurt or killed even possessing considerable training and skill, and avoidance / being armed is where our efforts should be focused to deal with that particular problem.

If you're presented with the video scenario at 1:11 how does a gun help? How does having your own knife help?

[jc000]

Why not start a thread on "unarmed response to being hit by a train"? If you are in a situation comparable to 1:11 of the above video, it is entirely likely that multiple failures have occurred to get to that point, and luck is going to play probably a much greater role in your survival than any skills or technique will.

I'd rather not set up BJJ to fail by presenting that as a viable option to a situation that really has no viable options.

[RevolverRob]

Why not start a thread on "unarmed response to being hit by a train"? If you are in a situation comparable to 1:11 of the above video, it is entirely likely that multiple failures have occurred to get to that point, and luck is going to play probably a much greater role in your survival than any skills or technique will.

I'd rather not set up BJJ to fail by presenting that as a viable option to a situation that really has no viable options.

To be honest, you're wrong, training can make it so you don't get in that situation or if you do, you have some idea of what to do...

I concur on some points with you:

1) Yes the best defense against a knife attack is to not be present when it happens.
2) Yes, the next best defense is to have distance and deploy lethal force, preferable in the form of a shotgun.
3) Yes, if you don't have a firearm, deploying OC, using an impact weapon, table, chair, dishes, beer bottle, etc. Is all preferable to entangled fighting.
4) Yes, if you lose distance, you're chances of getting cut go from 50-50 to just less than 100%
5) Yes, if you end up entangled, you're getting cut.

Now -



Queue it up to about 1:15 and watch to about 1:21. You'll see two distance attackers keeping each other off and then see it go entangled. Pause at 1:19, blue shirt has an overhook and a hand on the wrist of attacking hand of white shirt, stopping the free-swinging attack that should be coming at his midsection. By end of Day 1 of EWO, you've learned to do this. Now move to 1:41 and watch to 1:55. At 1:47 - no gloves gets an underhook, by 1:50 no gloves has locked down the attacking hand and moved to a split seatbelt tie up, by 1:54 he has used that tie-up to transition to a duck-under escape, which allows him to draw his own weapon and tag his target.

Did you note how from 1:41-1:42 that by clinching up with the attacker, he effectively stopped any free swinging punches? If gloves had a knife and started swinging, no gloves would have been tagged a couple of times, yes, but in non-vital areas (bicep, shoulder most likely). And following that in the space of 10-12 seconds, he manages to control his opponent, move to an dominant position (back), draw his own weapon, return the favor from a dominant position, and escape.

The video you posted is lousy training by some folks that want you to be scared of knives. Knives are fucking dangerous as hell, no fucking doubt about it. It hurts to get cut, it hurts to get stabbed, and you bet some fucking luck plays into it. Luck plays into everything, we can all die eating our dinner tonight, but we do it anyway. Learning how to defend oneself against a knife beyond, "Stay away from knife fights" isn't futile and it really isn't that complicated, either, but a little bit of the technique from wrestling, BJJ, and boxing can be blended to make a simple and effective approach.

[orionz06]

Why not start a thread on "unarmed response to being hit by a train"? If you are in a situation comparable to 1:11 of the above video, it is entirely likely that multiple failures have occurred to get to that point, and luck is going to play probably a much greater role in your survival than any skills or technique will.

I'd rather not set up BJJ to fail by presenting that as a viable option to a situation that really has no viable options.

How is BJJ failing? We take a situation where we're a punching bag for knife bro and minimize the damage by way of gaining control. Once we have control the limit is our skill, will, and opponent.

With regards to being in the situation... not sure that it can be contributed to multiple failures at all. Sometimes bad shit happens. The reality is that stuff like this can happen, if you choose to do something that's cool, if not that's cool. If there's something better than what I've trained let me know.


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[jc000]

Respectfully, we'll have to agree to disagree. I'd be happy to expand upon "why", but if we're just talking past each other it's probably best to just leave it at that.

ETA: this response was directed to RR before orionz post, but I think holds true for both.