That's actually pretty common. Working 2 and 3 shot drills, starting in DA, to separate small targets is a great way to fix that. Dry fire works also. Dry fire a DA shot then let the trigger out enough to simulate a SA shot. I find that transitioning to a separate target for DA and SA helps focus on trigger control and decreases snatching the 1st SA shot.Originally Posted by ranger
How do you guys work a light SA trigger? My general understanding has been that one releases the trigger past the reset point and takes up the slack during recoil, so you're waiting at the wall by the time your sight picture is ready. I'm finding that exceedingly difficult to do without occasionally going right through the wall.
I'm coming from Glocks with a 5 lb pull to a Langdon/Robar PX4C with SA around 3.5 lb. My Glocks were set up so they didn't really have a wall, though there were two distinct "stages" to the pull. Generally, I just pulled straight through in one motion from wherever I was at, though on difficult shots I would rapidly take up the pretravel and then pull smoothly through the second stage separately. There was quite a bit of movement involved yet at that higher weight before the shot broke. With the PX4C that is not the case, it seems my finger has to be moving very slowly to be able to detect the wall without going through it. I only have about 750 rounds through the platform compared to probably 30K on Glocks, so I recognize I'm still in the very early stages, but after dedicating some time to this issue at the range today, I'm unsure whether familiarity will really improve this or if my assumptions about how I should work the trigger were incorrect. This is the lightest trigger of any gun I have owned, and it seems like there is such a small margin between prepping and firing it makes me a bit uncomfortable.
As I type this, I wonder if I'm just overthinking it. Slap it without remorse when I can get away with it, take whatever time it takes to finesse it when I really have to. I guess for whatever reason I expected there to be a middle ground, where I would be consciously prepping after reset although shooting at a fairly rapid pace. I don't have the quantity of live fire I'd like to be able to experiment with different approaches, so I come to you guys for advice.
For me, it really depends on the target size and speed cadence at which I'm firing. If I'm shooting the 15Y portion of the Super Test for instance, I'm gonna prep the trigger before firing. However, on the 5Y portion there isn't enough time (for me) to prep the trigger between shots. Hold the gun firm and just stroke through the wall. Same with Bill Drills and other speed drills. It's gonna take some time to get comfortable with prepping the trigger to the wall, especially on the Robar'd PX4s. I have to be more conscious of finding the wall when shooting these compared to my fleet of 92s, which are mostly stock (and have a more discernible wall).
Last edited by MSparks909; 08-28-2017 at 07:44 AM.
Shoot more, post less...
While I don't have a PX4c, I wonder if 3.5#SA is too light. Some years ago, before I had a trigger pull gauge, my EII had worn the SA in so nicely, that I was getting some inadvertent double taps just shooting at paper. I bought a new sear and installed it to make the SA a little heavier. Currently my SAs on various 92s are all in the 4# range.
Prepping the trigger--yes I do that with my new Shadow, and always have with striker guns. That's why I prefer some takeup in SA. Otherwise, I think the best option is to come off the trigger or risk trigger freeze.
“There is no growth in the comfort zone.”--Jocko Willink
"You can never have too many knives." --Joe Ambercrombie
Quick update. I'm really liking this gun! It's basically like shooting a Limited gun in Production.
On Saturday, I shot a big outlaw match called the Dundee Crazy Croc. It's a very high round count match, so I competed in Limited with 17 round mags. Even though the rules didn't require it, I started with hammer down. My goal just was to get some experience under stress with the Shadow 2. I ended up placing well into the top 10 (even with a 22.5s penalty for forgetting about two targets on the first stage). The most exciting thing is I am now looking forward to shooting tough targets with the double action trigger pull. I don't know why, but I just like the feeling of the long hard pull, and seeing a 20 yd mini popper go down.
“There is no growth in the comfort zone.”--Jocko Willink
"You can never have too many knives." --Joe Ambercrombie
With my usual luck I broke my arm last Monday. This is the most important time of the year for me with several major matches every weekend and the Nationals in September. So I cancelled the matches but still planning on going to the Nationals because they will remove the cast a few days before. The doctor said they may have to put the cast back when I return though, ugh...
It is going to be even more challenging without any practice but I just cannot miss it...
Yesterday I could not take it anymore and went to the range to practice SHO. It was very productive - 400rds of various drills mostly from low ready with a fully decocked gun. Shooting SHO got me thinking about the DA/SA again. At the beginning I was a little too conservative but very soon I started pushing it. I would not even think of DA unless it was a 12 yrd head shoot. Just saw my sights and pulled the trigger. I think I need to work on my target transitions SHO more than a trigger pull.
This is what I think about shooting the DA - just ignore it, see the sights and pull the trigger.
Last edited by cheby; 08-28-2017 at 03:34 PM.
Dude. As I've already said--that sucks. You're going to be at the top on WHO skills.
“There is no growth in the comfort zone.”--Jocko Willink
"You can never have too many knives." --Joe Ambercrombie
This post reinforces a key DA/SA belief. People spend disproportionate amounts of practice time on the DA press, and underestimate what goes into shooting a SA trigger, thinking since it is SA it must be easy. Also, if most of your time is on one gun, you can start to work a trigger subconsciously, which then hurts you when you change to something different.
Likes pretty much everything in every caliber.
While I don't prefer 3.5lbs SA triggers they are still very "prepable". Yes, I think we should be resetting the gun in recoil. I don't see any reason no to. Pinning and then letting out, feeling and listening for a click, is a plague that should be exterminated.
Some things I find helpful in prepping the SA include dry practice.
-With an UNLOADED PISTOL, hold it in your strong hand, pull the trigger and hold to the rear.
-Come over the top with your "other" strong hand and rack the slide quickly.
-While the slide is in motion reset the trigger and prep as desired.
In addition, when learning the skill I find it easier for most to not prep beyond removing the mechanical slack. If you goal is removal of that slack only and no other pressure on the trigger face it is much more manageable. As your skill via dry fire increases you can start removing the slack and prepping into that 3.5 as you see fit or need given a particular target distance or level of difficulty.
I think many underestimate just how fast you can do this. I feel very comfortable saying I prep right down to low 0.2x splits. Beyond that speed I've already predetermine a number of rounds going down range and do press straight through.
Always I have the desire to push how aggressive I can be with this. If I prep the mechanical slack only so be it but this skill allows me to work up. At 5-10 on an A zone I don't need to slow very much for the prep. At 35 I definitely do. But pushing this skill is not an end in and of it self. It is the means by which I'm learning, as my skill improves, to slap at even further distances.
At least this is what I tell myself. I could be full of crap. YMMV.
Reply With Quote