The info I read on the ATF site seemed to indicate it was an SBR. It just didnt address the question of if the base gun wasnt controlled/regulated in states that didnt allow SBRs/whatever if the stock was off.
The ATF site has a lot of info, though it isnt always quite where one expects it to be, or titled the way we may be looking for it. It did mentioned that a pistol with added shoulder stock was SBR. Not sure exactly where I read it.
Last edited by Malamute; 08-13-2017 at 12:37 PM.
i would be very careful with this, as this is likely committing a felony.Originally Posted by BWT
Per the BATFE, putting a long barrel on an AR or SBS removes the "short" part of the equation, returning them to normal status. Taking the stock off an AR or SBS wouldn't, as they have been registered as long guns.
The BATFE has ruled in the past that "once a rifle, always a rifle". For example, you can register an XP-100 as an SBR. But you can't take a Model 7 or 700, and remove the shoulder stock/chop the barrel to make a pistol. To treat the XP-100 SBR as normal, you would have to install a 16"+ barrel. The same would go for that revolver, if it has been registered as a SBR.
I could be wrong, but didn't ATF rule at one point that you could have a "standard" pistol AR-15 lower, and then tear it down and build it as a (16"+) rifle, then convert it back to a pistol at will, provided that at no time it was assembled with the short barrel and a shoulder stock?
I know individuals have registered Glocks as SBR's and used the shoulder stock that goes in the grip channel. But then taken the stock off and not had any issues.
What I've always understood is current configuration was what mattered.
But, I'm also not the ATF. I had heard of that with AR pistols but not literal pistols before.
God Bless,
Brandon
My understanding is that a SBR without a stock is still a SBR, subject to all SBR regulations.
So I think it's a felony. I could be wrong. I would consult an NFA lawyer if I was going to go that route.
Also, there is a big difference between legal and not getting caught. I've never been asked to prove anything when out shooting with my registered and completely legal SBRs, suppressors, or SBS. They could have been unregistered for all anybody else knew.
Last edited by Toonces; 08-19-2017 at 08:48 AM.
Let me be 100% crystal clear on this; I am not nor have I ever advocated breaking the law.
Every post I've made has been in regard to this has been attempting to help understand what the law is.
So, the line above about it being a felony or someone getting away with something. I don't endorse or condone breaking the law.
He asked what we thought was legal.
Personally,
I'd call the ATF and find out.
They're always pretty helpful on the matter.
God Bless,
Brandon
The first quote of yours above is a factual statement. I would say the meaning is clear. The second quote is an anecdotal statement that is not fully defined as to the circumstance, but I took to mean that since they do it, it must be ok. I don't think either are right, but I'm not an NFA lawyer or BATFE official. I'm just some dude who was an avid reader of the NFA section of M4carbine when I was going through the process, but not so much now. Do you know what the law is? If not, I think your statements are reckless and contribute to the misunderstanding and confusion regarding a complex set of laws and rulings. I don't know, so I gave conservative advice and warnings that were meant to wave people off of committing what I suspect to be a felony. If I really wanted to know, I would ask on M4carbine and see what people like Renegade and scotryan say, or ask an NFA lawyer. The BATFE has a bad habit of giving different answers depending on who is asked, and individual agents may/probably don't know the past rulings/interpretations.
Hadnt thought of M4C.
One a rifle always a rifle does not just apply to AR's.
When you file a form one for a pistol, you are "making" an SBR. Once you have made a pistol into a short barrel rifle the frame is legally a rifle. Taking off the stock does not Legally convert it back into a pistol. Pistol to rifle is a one way trip unless you remove it from the NFA registry.
Putting a 16" upper on an SBR lower is still going from one type of rifle to another.
No. Once you build your AR pistol lower or AR "receiver" into a rifle by installing a stock, it technically stays a rifle even after you take off the stock.
Think of it as losing "rifle virginity."
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