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Thread: Shoulder stocked pistol, how are they classified?

  1. #1
    Hillbilly Elitist Malamute's Avatar
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    Shoulder stocked pistol, how are they classified?

    If one wished to add a shoulder stock to a pistol, what is the legal procedure, and could the pistol be taken interstate to a state that doesnt allow short barrel rifles or whatever the resultant gun is, if the shoulder stock was left at home? Does it get to be simply a handgun again and able to travel interstate without paperwork or complications if the stock isnt present? Does the original base gun need to be engraved with anything, or just have the paperwork on hand when out and about?

    In this instance, the base gun would be either a Colt Single Action Army or Ruger single action. Would add a detachable shoulder stock, similar to what the original "carbine stocked" Colt SAA had in the 1880s, and later became known as "Buntline Specials"

    This being the general idea.



    I realize a 16" barrel would simplify things, but I really dont want a 16" barrel pistol. 7 1/2 or 9" seems OK for still being carryable out in the hills.

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by Malamute View Post
    If one wished to add a shoulder stock to a pistol, what is the legal procedure, and could the pistol be taken interstate to a state that doesnt allow short barrel rifles or whatever the resultant gun is, if the shoulder stock was left at home? Does it get to be simply a handgun again and able to travel interstate without paperwork or complications if the stock isnt present? Does the original base gun need to be engraved with anything, or just have the paperwork on hand when out and about?

    In this instance, the base gun would be either a Colt Single Action Army or Ruger single action. Would add a detachable shoulder stock, similar to what the original "carbine stocked" Colt SAA had in the 1880s, and later became known as "Buntline Specials"

    This being the general idea.



    I realize a 16" barrel would simplify things, but I really dont want a 16" barrel pistol. 7 1/2 or 9" seems OK for still being carryable out in the hills.
    There are some a few weird grandfathered exemptions (like the game getter). However, what you're describing is an SBR.

    But, just like you can put a 16" upper on a registered SBR and take it across the state lines without a Form 5320. I imagine this would be the same. Take the stock off and it's not an SBR anymore.

    God Bless,

    Brandon

  3. #3
    2017 PFestP320 Winner RevolverRob's Avatar
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    There are collectible exemptions for Curio and Relic arms (e.g., Mauser C96, old Lugers, Hi-Powers, etc). You can see a (incomplete) list of NFA exempted arms here - https://www.atf.gov/firearms/curios-relics As well as protocols for adding new ones to the list. Recognize a few things:

    1) All guns must be genuine curios and relics, not modern replicas.
    2) BATF(U) Tech Branch has decided on different occasions that only original shoulder stocks maybe attached to C&R Exempted guns and on separate occasions that replica "period correct" stocks would be allowed.

    So...best case scenario - you should find a C&R Exempt gun with the original stock or an original stock from the same time period (not replica), to be legal.

    The other thing you can do is black-powder (percussion fired) revolvers with stocks are perfectly legal. They are not technically firearms by ATF definition and therefore you can do whatever you want with them. At one point in time - I may have had a 1851 London Navy (Uberti) and a shoulder a stock attached as a defensive firearm...Cimarron has: http://www.cimarron-firearms.com/ske...der-stock.html and http://www.cimarron-firearms.com/pro...-london-1.html
    Last edited by RevolverRob; 08-12-2017 at 06:54 PM.
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  4. #4
    Or... go the non attached stock route. Like the webley "aim-brace" or the Ruger Mkii ones that mark white at Soundtech used to make.

    Name:  7203MKII-2_Medium_-med.jpg
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    http://www.rimfirecentral.com/forums...d.php?t=114879
    Last edited by jandbj; 08-12-2017 at 07:55 PM.

  5. #5
    Hillbilly Elitist Malamute's Avatar
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    Well, its unlikely id find an old original that may have immunity. As I understand it, there were around 20 or so original Colt pistol carbines. The one I borrowed the picture of in my post was estimated at $25k-$40K. This will be a current or recent period manufacture project.

    I understand about the percussion guns. I enjoy shooting them, but dont consider them a practical field gun for my use, at least not as practical as a cartridge gun. I figured this would need to be papered, I'm just wondering if I can use the gun without the stock in states that dont allow SBRs or shoulder stocked pistols. The whole thing is probably more in the fun category than truly practical, but it would be something Id use in the hills.

    Do SBRs have to be engraved with information related to the tax stamp? I see people discussing engraving info on them, I didnt know if it was required, or what they had engraved on them.

  6. #6
    2017 PFestP320 Winner RevolverRob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jandbj View Post
    Or... go the non attached stock route. Like the webley "aim-brace" or the Ruger Mkii ones that mark white at Soundtech used to make.

    Name:  7203MKII-2_Medium_-med.jpg
Views: 660
Size:  14.6 KB

    http://www.rimfirecentral.com/forums...d.php?t=114879
    Say now...that's an interesting idea. One could take a skeletal stock like the one above and cut off the upper clamp portion that allows the stock to attach to the revolver. Thereby, modifying it such that it could only be held in place by the firing hand like pictured above. Not sure of the legality, I guess one could cut up a Cimarron-Arms type stock and submit it to the ATF Tech Branch for approval.
    "You can never be too rich, too good looking, or too well armed." - Marcus Kincaid

  7. #7
    Hillbilly Elitist Malamute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Malamute View Post
    Do SBRs have to be engraved with information related to the tax stamp? I see people discussing engraving info on them, I didnt know if it was required, or what they had engraved on them.
    Finally found the info on this.

    The "not really a shoulder stock" things arent what I'm interested in. If I did it, it would be a detachable stock like the Colts came with in the 80s. Theres some reproduction skeleton type stocks floating around, I dont think theyve been made in some time. They seem to turn up on the gun selling sites now and then from what I can gather from google. Edit: I didnt read Robs links before, thanks for the tip on the stocks!
    Last edited by Malamute; 08-12-2017 at 10:03 PM.

  8. #8
    100% Retro Hambo's Avatar
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    Malamute, take a look at this as it may answer part of your question. I think this is the most recent ATF opinion on TC Contenders: https://www.atf.gov/file/55526/download
    You can never beat a monkey in a poo flinging contest.

  9. #9
    Hillbilly Elitist Malamute's Avatar
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    Thanks! I read it, but it didnt seem to specifically address my question. At least as far as I could tell with not being awake that long yet.




    The question in the title of this thread was the result of reading something on the Thompson forum. Someone asked about putting a stock on a 1927 pistol, he was advised it was legally simpler to SBR a rifle. Not sure why that would be, but what Ive learned so far doesnt seem to support that idea. I now understand how this would be classified in any event.
    Last edited by Malamute; 08-13-2017 at 10:31 AM.

  10. #10
    Site Supporter Rich@CCC's Avatar
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    Am I mistaken in that a pistol with a detachable shoulder stock is classified as "Any Other Weapon" rather than SBR?
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