Can we please stop and have a common sense reality check for a moment on this stuff.
Here comes some truth bombs. Human beings can screw up with any trigger system. Multiple violations of safety rules, unsafe practices, and pure human stupidity will win the day here every time. We simply cannot over engineer out stupid. What we can do is put some things in place to mitigate risk in line with how many of these guns are employed in a stress filled crisis situation. Shooting sports...whatever works, don't really care at this point. Operation of firearms in a home or in public, that is my focus.
Triggers....interesting little things that initiate the shot in a handgun. We at some point need to be on it to finish a lethal force decision, that is the simple part. The complexity is when we start pouring in a bunch of other factors. Certain trigger systems will be a hardware solution to fix different portions of the equation.
First....I have been in two shootings with shotguns, and one with a DA Pistol. I have been in multiple incidents where a lethal force decision was made and part way through the trigger press the situation changed and that press stopped. Those have been done with most of the action types we normally discuss.
Want to know my perception of trigger weight....nothing drastic between any of them. What is perceptible is trigger movement. The way time is warped in your mind during a crisis, some of those trigger presses on DA guns (Revolver or auto) feel like they take forever, and most of my "stops" during the press involved those types of triggers. The shotguns, with essentially a short single action, just go off after almost imperceptible movement. This is neither "good" nor "bad", but can be either dependent on the situation.
The biggest added benefit to a DA or LEM is that when your visual acuity spikes (found this in every case), you get both a tactile and visual confirmation that you are in fact getting ready to fire. You can literally see your trigger press and in near slow motion. I find this to be a positive from a purely people management and use of force scenario.
What I look for in a striker gun is predictable movement of that trigger because I can't see it or really get a weight feel. My Glocks have been set up for more take up than stock (but using all stock components and factory trigger weights). A huge reason I love the VP9 is that the trigger is super predictable to me in feel. Others find other guns work for them, which is just fine. Some guns have very little movement to get them to go bang. I like "shooting" these, not so sure as a very fallible human being that l like them for managing a dynamic force problem. Another thing these combinations of trigger types can do is mitigate some risk. With a DA weapon, I can look at the gun and immediately assess some things about its condition. Obviously if the hammer is cocked, I have some additional concerns. With a striker gun, you don't actually have much of a clue until you physically put hands on that gun. From an instructor'sstandpoint, I also get some of that visual feedback as well.
Other factors that start coming into play on mitigating stupid is a hammer. Can you holster a non-decocked gun with a finger in a trigger and have the exact same issues as holstering a striker gun with a finger on the trigger...absolutely. What changes the dynamic is you have a visual indicator that you have not decocked, and if taught properly to holster with a thumb on the back of the hammer, you get a tactile indication of an issue, combined with a trigger that is pretty easy to feel that it is in contact and moving if you holster with your finger still on the trigger. This is where solid mixing of hardware and software in training come into play. We can impart some checks into the training to help mitigate stress mistakes.
A Gadget will also help this when added on to some striker platforms. Can anyone get a finger on a trigger early....very much yes. Do we have more indicators to the shooter making that mistake with a DA or LEM gun, yes. Both in tactile movement and visual indicator of the hammer. Same with draw stroke early finger insertions...obviously, a couple triggers are more forgiving of this. You can never depend on a trigger to stop negligent discharges. Triggers don't stop ND's. The problem has been with police administrators, misguided trainers and other "experts" who have come to this conclusion.
What triggers can do is WITH PROPER REPETITIVE TRAINING is to help the operator of the firearm know they have made a mistake before the consequences hit. That is a proper loading and training with software to operate the hardware. Improper software training results in misuse of hardware (not de-cocking every time the muzzle comes off target, cocking hammers, early trigger prepping, thumb cocking, etc). Misuse is a major issue with ANY system. I find it funny that folks like myself and others who have some extensive experience in a high stress environments making complex force decisions on a daily basis over decades find ourselves capable of making mistakes and like some layers in place to have our chosen firearms to be a bit forgiving of those mistakes. Yet, many who the scariest thing they have ever done is come home and mom forgot to leave the porch light on discount this stuff as much ado about nothing, and retort with my favorite pre cursor to an expert opinion of "what I would do is".
Overall, we can safely and efficiently operate all kinds of triggers. We can screw up all kinds of triggers. What I have found is that the triggers that are often a bit harder to master and shoot well, are also the triggers that are a bit more forgiving of mistakes. They do not mitigate mistakes, just are more forgiving. Just like a great trigger is not a guarantee of great shooting, they are just more forgiving of trigger press errors on the marksmanship side.
. Snarky and easily butt hurt. Favorite animal is the Cape Buffalo....likely indicative of a personality disorder.
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Originally Posted by Dagga Boy
