P320 and training classes

[Francis]

Mods, I pulled this out of the "Issues" thread because of the pace and volume of posts in that thread.

I'm scheduled to be in a class next week and I'm trying to figure out 1) how to ask the class instructor before then if he will be allowing P320s in the class and 2) what I'll do if there is one in the class (I'll at least make the 2 hour trip in case there isn't one there).

For the professional trainers here, what approach would you recommend for me to ask the trainer about this through email? Even if he will be allowing P320s I'll probably still go in case no one has one. If there is a P320 there I wouldn't want to leave but I'm thinking it would be the best thing to do (stakes vs. odds). Suggestions?

This situation also makes me more wary of public ranges, the only type I have access to.

[Kyle Reese]

I'd just email the instructor and ask if they permit the P320 in class.

If you're in a class and you feel that some of the fundamental gun safety rules are being violated or not enforced, I would see zero issues in leaving. I almost did it a few years ago in a class in WV.



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[David S.]

Wow TXBK, your post is timely. I just got online to ask about this very issue. I'm scheduled to be in a class next week and I'm trying to figure out 1) how to ask the class instructor before then if he will be allowing P320s in the class and 2) what I'll do if he says yes and 3) what I'll do if there is one in the class (I'll at least make the trip in case there isn't one there so no issue).

For the professional trainers here, what approach would you recommend for me to ask the trainer about this through email? Even if he does I'll probably still go. If there is a P320 there I wouldn't want to leave but it's probably what I should do. Suggestions?

This situation also makes me more wary of public ranges, the only type I have access to.

Just ask.

I'm not a professional trainer, but my thoughts:

It's an individual decision. Speaking personally, I'll be attending the HiTS Advanced Pistol Class at the end of the month. Based on the facts as I understand them now, I'm OK with being on the line with a P320 if the instructors chooses to allow them. My decision might be different for a different class format or different instructors, but under this particular set of circumstances I'd be OK with it.

When shooting IDPA/USPSA (a setting that is far more likely to induce a drop) I accept the risk of being around guns with unknown modifications, that are potentially far less "drop safe" than a P320 is.

As it stands now, that's my personally risk assessment, but totally understand if anyone else sees it differently.

[TXBK]

In regards to trainers allowing the P320 on their firing line right now, that would simply be career/business Russian Roulette. Best case scenario would obviously be, no incident. Worst case scenario would be a near miss, injury, or even death from this particular firearm. I just cannot see the liability involved being worth it. Especially with the recent publicity, and the fact that it is on the radar of anyone even remotely paying attention.

If this happened to be my firearm of choice, then I would have one of two decisions to make. Comply or stay home. Anything other than that has to bring a whole mess of issues with someone's character into question. Honest, reputable, and truly safe instructors will put the safety of the class before someone else's feelings.

Until this is resolved in an acceptable manner, I just cannot see any way around that. What would be an acceptable resolution? I don't have an answer for that. However, I cannot see a reasonable person having an issue with benching this firearm for the present time. After all, training should consist of learning and progress and not fear or anxiety caused by a certain lead slinger(s) on the line.

[psalms144.1]

Is the P320 your only viable pistol for the training? If not, why would you want to take a pistol that has a known safety issue to a training class?

Not calling you out, seriously interested in why you'd even consider going to training with a P320 right now...

[TXBK]

Just ask.

I'm not a professional trainer, but my thoughts:

It's an individual decision. Speaking personally, I'll be attending the HiTS Advanced Pistol Class at the end of the month. Based on the facts as I understand them now, I'm OK with being on the line with a P320 if the instructors chooses to allow them. My decision might be different for a different class format or different instructors, but under this particular set of circumstances I'd be OK with it.

When shooting IDPA/USPSA (a setting that is far more likely to induce a drop) I accept the risk of being around guns with unknown modifications, that are potentially far less "drop safe" than a P320 is.

As it stands now, that's my personally risk assessment, but totally understand if anyone else sees it differently.

I was actually going to issue a caveat, specifically regarding this class and group of shooters. Having attended a few of their classes, I know that more than likely, I would be able to look in any direction and recognize most if not all of the faces. I think that there is a certain amount of trust that has been established, but I can't put that at complete trust. There are just too many factors present that increase the chance of an accident. The two biggest in this case being, heat (Texas in August) which will lead to sweaty hands, and range surface (hard asphalt).

While having a P320 on this particular line, probably wouldn't cause me to fear for my life, it most likely would distract me from focusing on the training. Even if it were either or both of the instructors that were shooting the P320, I would probably still have that gun in the back of my mind. This is with me having complete confidence in their firearm handling abilities and their devotion to safety on their range.

I'm pretty sure that you are probably still shooting a G34, so I am not aiming this "at" you or anyone else for that matter. I won't be able to be there unfortunately.

[Jay Cunningham]

They are banned in my classes for the time being.

[David S.]

I was actually going to issue a caveat, specifically regarding this class and group of shooters. Having attended a few of their classes, I know that more than likely, I would be able to look in any direction and recognize most if not all of the faces. I think that there is a certain amount of trust that has been established, but I can't put that at complete trust. There are just too many factors present that increase the chance of an accident. The two biggest in this case being, heat (Texas in August) which will lead to sweaty hands, and range surface (hard asphalt).

While having a P320 on this particular line, probably wouldn't cause me to fear for my life, it most likely would distract me from focusing on the training. Even if it were either or both of the instructors that were shooting the P320, I would probably still have that gun in the back of my mind. This is with me having complete confidence in their firearm handling abilities and their devotion to safety on their range.

I guess I'm less concerned about having "that gun" (de jure) on the line than "that guy."

I'm pretty sure that you are probably still shooting a G34, so I am not aiming this "at" you or anyone else for that matter. I won't be able to be there unfortunately.

As an aside, I think you're mistaking me for someone else. I've shot a SIG P226 in the last couple HiTS classes. I'll be shooting a LEM P-Series this time around.

Cheers,

[TXBK]

I guess I'm less concerned about having "that gun" (de jure) on the line than "that guy."

As an aside, I think you're mistaking me for someone else. I've shot a SIG P226 in the last couple HiTS classes. I'll be shooting a LEM P-Series this time around.

Cheers,

That's understandable, but I also don't have a desire to attend a competition. I spent a good many years of my life putting myself near potential dangers often, just for the sake of fun. Now, with a family that depend on me, I am much more aware and protective of self-preservation. I drive everyday, and that is probably one of the most dangerous activities I participate in these days, but I have to do that. With self-preservation often on my mind, I would be watching that gun and shooter if it was present, and distracted.

In my line of work, the people I work around and the tools that they are using are sometimes the biggest threats to me. I have worked with some of them for quite a few years, and while I don't distrust them, I still pay attention. This particular firearm (tool), at the moment, is potentially more threatening than other firearms (tools). So, it would demand my attention, if it were present.

I can place you with a P226 now...tallest pilot on the line.

[Hambo]

I guess I'm less concerned about having "that gun" (de jure) on the line than "that guy."

I'm far more concerned with other students than with their choice of pistol. I can only remember seeing one pistol hit the deck in training, but I've seen several scary shooters.