Semi-Auto Triggers: market trends, choices, and consequences

[blues]

I still believe the DA revolver is the best answer for most people. Like it or not, people shoot themselves more often than they shoot bad guys and by a pretty high margin (not counting suicides, strictly number of UDs causing injury or death vs justified shoots of non-criminals vs criminals). Capacity rarely matters, the shots are not challenging, etc.

That is the conclusion I came to with my wife. Back in 2000 while out in Montana with Rob Simonich, I noticed that she had a good eye with both handgun and long gun when following instruction. (I allowed Rob to provide her basic training as we were on his BLM based range and he knew what he was about in any case.)

Since she is not a "gun" person, and even a simple Glock still requires attention to certain details and nuances that one can bypass with a D/A revolver, I have settled upon her falling back to an assigned position in the event of a home invasion at which time she is to counter any threat with a 686+ loaded with .38 Critical Defense ammo. The manual of arms is simple enough that even with periods of time elapsing between running exercises, she can maintain her awareness of the steps she is to follow in this situation...allowing me to address and engage between her and any inbound threat.

[GJM]

I am sure there are some times a longer trigger would be better, some times a more shootable trigger would be better, some times a pistol that held more cartridges would be better, some times a bigger caliber would be better, and some days an easier to maintain pistol would be better. The problem is we don't know which until afterwards, hence we pick the best choice, based on our personal knowledge, experience and preferences.

You could probably take that great Gary Roberts quote, substitute "pistol" for "load," and do just fine.

-- Purchase a consistent, robust performing duty/self-defense load in sufficient quantities (at least 1000 rounds) then STOP worrying about the nuances of handgun ammunition terminal performance.

[blues]

I am sure there are some times a longer trigger would be better, some times a more shootable trigger would be better, some times a pistol that held more cartridges would be better, some times a bigger caliber would be better, and some days an easier to maintain pistol would be better. The problem is we don't know which until afterwards, hence we pick the best choice, based on our personal knowledge, experience and preferences.

You could probably take that great Gary Roberts quote, substitute "pistol" for "load," and do just fine.

-- Purchase a consistent, robust performing duty/self-defense load in sufficient quantities (at least 1000 rounds) then STOP worrying about the nuances of handgun ammunition terminal performance.

Hard to argue with that, imho.

[DAB]

i've read too many posts where some man concludes that some woman is best served with a "simple" revolver.

women are just as capable as men at understanding and using all manner of mechanical devices, such as cars, trucks, busses, large machinery, and even guns.

if they haven't been brought up around firearms, then they have a little to learn to get up to speed. so teach them. encourage them. support them. you might need them someday, and I bet you hope they are a very good shot with the best gun they can safely handle in their possession.

[blues]

i've read too many posts where some man concludes that some woman is best served with a "simple" revolver.

women are just as capable as men at understanding and using all manner of mechanical devices, such as cars, trucks, busses, large machinery, and even guns.

if they haven't been brought up around firearms, then they have a little to learn to get up to speed. so teach them. encourage them. support them. you might need them someday, and I bet you hope they are a very good shot with the best gun they can safely handle in their possession.

I for one don't at all doubt the ability of women when it comes to firearms. My female partner back in the 90's sent a couple of ne'er-do-wells to their just deserts.

However, my wife is as interested in firearms as she is in managing our finances. Hence, the decision to keep it simple for practical reasons.

As hard as it may be for some to believe, there are many folks out there who really aren't interested in firearms and the related arts. And so it goes.

(BTW, I dubbed her "Honey West" after the old show with Anne Francis from the 60's. The Miami-Dade detectives in our task force loved it and never let her forget...much to her chagrin and occasional pleasure.)

[breakingtime91]

I for one don't at all doubt the ability of women when it comes to firearms. My female partner back in the 90's sent a couple of ne'er-do-wells to their just deserts.

However, my wife is as interested in firearms as she is in managing our finances. Hence, the decision to keep it simple for practical reasons.

As hard as it may be for some to believe, there are many folks out there who really aren't interested in firearms and the related arts. And so it goes.

Yup my wife is the same. She is a good and competent shooter but has no interest in it at all.. I have an HK p2000sk with hds on it as her " put big orange ball on bad guy and pull the trigger until the slide locks back if needed". Simple gun to use, reliable, trigger is pretty easy to not shoot and not hard to shoot.

[DAB]

I for one don't at all doubt the ability of women when it comes to firearms. My female partner back in the 90's sent a couple of ne'er-do-wells to their just desserts.

However, my wife is as interested in firearms as she is in managing our finances. Hence, the decision to keep it simple for practical reasons.
As hard as it may be for some to believe, there are many folks out there who really aren't interested in firearms and the related arts. And so it goes.

if she has been exposed to, and has had a chance to try various pistols, and discover the pros and cons of each as they relate to her, then that's great.

a few weeks ago our club had an open house, and people were invited to stop by, see the facilities, and even shoot their own guns with some supervision from members.

a young lady, who had just bought a pistol found a willing member, who came across as some "expert instructor", and he proceeded to talk to her for over 90 minutes about how to load, unload, aim, unholster, holster, scan, move...... all she wanted to do was shoot her new little Kimber revolver. she didn't want a lecture, just wanted to shoot it a bit.

if she had been hooked up with me, that's what we would have done. i'd show her how to load it, aim it, shoot it, unload it. just what she wanted. and if i noticed that she was somewhat hesitant with it, or doing poorly, i likely would have asked her why she chose that gun. that would have likely led to me offering to let her shoot one of mine that i had packed along that day (Sig P320 in this case). just to give her a point of comparison. maybe she would have decided that her revolver was good for her. likely she would have experienced the reduced recoil of a full size pistol and that would have got her to thinking.

if a gun is unpleasant to shoot, then a new shooter is not likely to shoot it much, and thus, they won't get better anytime soon.

so start with a full size pistol, once you have somewhat mastered that, then think about going with something smaller.

[blues]

if she has been exposed to, and has had a chance to try various pistols, and discover the pros and cons of each as they relate to her, then that's great.

a few weeks ago our club had an open house, and people were invited to stop by, see the facilities, and even shoot their own guns with some supervision from members.

a young lady, who had just bought a pistol found a willing member, who came across as some "expert instructor", and he proceeded to talk to her for over 90 minutes about how to load, unload, aim, unholster, holster, scan, move...... all she wanted to do was shoot her new little Kimber revolver. she didn't want a lecture, just wanted to shoot it a bit.

if she had been hooked up with me, that's what we would have done. i'd show her how to load it, aim it, shoot it, unload it. just what she wanted. and if i noticed that she was somewhat hesitant with it, or doing poorly, i likely would have asked her why she chose that gun. that would have likely led to me offering to let her shoot one of mine that i had packed along that day (Sig P320 in this case). just to give her a point of comparison. maybe she would have decided that her revolver was good for her. likely she would have experienced the reduced recoil of a full size pistol and that would have got her to thinking.

if a gun is unpleasant to shoot, then a new shooter is not likely to shoot it much, and thus, they won't get better anytime soon.

so start with a full size pistol, once you have somewhat mastered that, then think about going with something smaller.

I'm sorry, DAB. You're on the wrong track here, at least vis a vis me and mine. She's not interested, period. Much like I'm not interested in watching the E! network, reading Glamour or Allure. To each their own. You seem to think that a bit of encouragement is all that is required. That might be fine sometimes...but is not universally so. Let's not beat this to death. It's not about sexism or trying to make it easier for the "little lady".

There's Annie Oakley, Wrangler Jane, Calamity Jane and then there are some women who just aren't interested.
(And I daresay more men in that category.)

[StraitR]

If we're talking about individual choice then sure. Make your choice, take your chance. But you and I disagree about the difference a DA/SA makes to many peoples progress. The harder it is to learn the more people on the bell curve get stalled, never to improve, etc. There are also other issues concerning ability. There are a lot of psychological issues related to confidence and ability. Some people not only stall in progress but stall in other things such as tactics, etc. It's amazing to see some of those people that were left behind continue to expand when getting rid of the DA/SA. How much do they expand and improve? That's a bell curve in and of itself. Some just explode in ability. Others get a little better. Almost none get worse. It's amazing to see substandard people struggle with the DA/SA. It's like a cascade of failure where the shooter turns into a bag of bolts they more they press the trigger. That cascade of failure just goes away with the consistent trigger pull. Gone on day one, never to return.

I end with this....very few people like to admit that for whatever reason they were below average. Those that do usually see it and understand it after the fact. By then the damage is done. This is very true for civilians who don't get a lot of feedback during training.

I didn't comment on "the difference a DA/SA makes to many peoples progress", so I'm not sure what you are disagreeing with from my previous post.

I simply said there are absolute differences in the two trigger systems when it comes to performance and safety, no matter how small they may be. Everything past "personal choice" above is you reading too much into what I said.

That being said, I don't agree with the sentiment that new shooters need strikers to avoid an untimely performance stall which could get them killed in the streets. We can just agree to disagree because neither of us will change the mind of the other. We simply differ in our prioritization of safety and performance, and that's ok. It doesn't make you an unsafe shooter and it doesn't mean I have low performance standards, it means we see things differently.

[DAB]

and if someone is not interested in learning how to shoot, that's fine too. but we shouldn't assume that women should be shoved toward the revolver display because they are "simple". let women decide what works for each one. i wouldn't dare pick out clothes or accessories for a woman, and likewise, I wouldn't try to pick out a pistol for one either. show them the whole range, let them fire as many as possible, and then they can decide what works for their needs.

i picked out what works for me, same applies to anyone else.