The Implications for SIG SAUER

[breakingtime91]

What are the chances that the army will pull back the contract in light of these issues?

[farscott]

The bigger issue is what other skeletons are lurking in Sigs product quality closet.

We know about the P320's faults because it's a higher volume pistol ; but one wonders how many P227s/226s/Sp2022s and so on have shit the bed to no public awareness.

With cars,appliances and tools if they're defective youre out a consumer good or a way to work, which is bad enough. If you buy a gun that pulls a Nambu it might be the last defective product you ever interact with: and the risk to bystanders is also substantial.

I am going to address the appliances part of the comment because I was a principal engineer for an appliance manufacturer for some time. As such, I can tell you that defective appliances can cause such issues as house fires, fatally entrapping children, and loss of limbs. I can also tell you that some companies care more about a culture of safety than others do. The company for which I worked used a parallel engineering organization that cared only about safety and regulatory affairs and used things like UL standards as a starting point for evaluating a design. Internal requirements were much more strict than agency requirements. The company also freely licensed any and all IP related to safety to competitors. That parallel engineering organization reported right to the VP who ran engineering and had absolute veto power over a proposed design, process, or manufacturing change. That company was an exemplar of how safety should be treated and voluntarily reported issues to the CPSC before an event was even recorded in the field. Product safety was hardwired into the business and into the culture. Products that had to be recalled were recalled, and customers were never blamed even when misuse was clearly part of the root cause.

So when I see how SIG is responding, I know how it should be done -- and SIG is not doing that.

[farscott]

Maybe this doesn't hurt to be here in addition to where I first posted it. This is where folks go to file complaints with the US Consumer Product Safety Commission.


https://www.saferproducts.gov/CPSRMS...tIncident.aspx

Please remember that the CPSC has no jurisdiction over firearm manufacturers due to federal legislation.

[Willard]

What are the chances that the army will pull back the contract in light of these issues?

According to 632 this thread https://pistol-forum.com/showthread....-issues/page64 the MHS pistols already had the fix...I dunno.

[Magsz]

He may be a respected name in the industry but he came across as a company man when he said "This is absolutely to be expected from the world's premier gunmaker." His entire statement lost credibility to me once I read that line. I mean, it's fucking SIG.

"Company man" is being nice. Shill is more fitting. That guy's ego is the size of whatever the hell Midwest state he lives in. At one point I had a great deal of respect for him. As time has passed, and i've watched his behavior and the ego driven drivel he posts online in addition to the shit service I received from his company I'm done. The guy is a Sig zealot and a Shill.

[Jared]

What are the chances that the army will pull back the contract in light of these issues?

Doubt it, but I'd probably LOL if they called Tennessee and asked how soon Beretta could start sending M9A3's

[Stephanie B]

I suspect somebody has played fast and loose with a couple of truths. I suspect they say the commercial P320 has passed industry tests that don't include the dangerous drop I see being called the -30 drop. Some of the official tests don't include that angle. It is from those tests they derive the angle that the failure drops are in excess of some industry standard.

Alternatively they may say they even passed the Army test perhaps, which does include the -30 drop - when they are referring to the (now we know) upgraded M17.

Doesn't the M17 have a thumb safety? So if the pistol was dropped with the safety on, wouldn't that block the Chain of Horrible Events?

[JHC]

Please remember that the CPSC has no jurisdiction over firearm manufacturers due to federal legislation.

Waaaaat? Please remember? More like please LEARN! Thanks, I like learning.

[AlwaysLearning]

Waaaaat? Please remember? More like please LEARN! Thanks, I like learning.

I'm all for product safety. The issue is that Hillary "ban all guns" Clinton and her fellow travelers have tried to use product safety/liability as a backdoor gun ban. This is what has happened with the roster in California and Massachusetts. The argument from Clinton and her ilk is that all guns should be banned because not safe, or else crippled with fingerprint scanners, remote kill switches, non-existing microstamping, etc. Closely related to the "ban guns because unsafe" garbage is the "public health" approach of "gun violence means guns are more likely to hurt you than protect you" that came out of Garren Wintermute and Arthur Kellerman's "research."

Since the liberals have basically made it impossible to have a good faith discussion about government safety regulations, it seems like it's going to be left to big sellers/distributors like Omaha Outdoors to pick up the slack.

[JHC]

I'm all for product safety. The issue is that Hillary "ban all guns" Clinton and her fellow travelers have tried to use product safety/liability as a backdoor gun ban. This is what has happened with the roster in California and Massachusetts. The argument from Clinton and her ilk is that all guns should be banned because not safe, or else crippled with fingerprint scanners, remote kill switches, non-existing microstamping, etc. Closely related to the "ban guns because unsafe" garbage is the "public health" approach of "gun violence means guns are more likely to hurt you than protect you" that came out of Garren Wintermute and Arthur Kellerman's "research."

Since the liberals have basically made it impossible to have a good faith discussion about government safety regulations, it seems like it's going to be left to big sellers/distributors like Omaha Outdoors to pick up the slack.

Roj, but I thought mistakenly thought those laws concerned angles to blame manufacturers for firearms functioning as designed. I didn't know it reached into the area of a product failing outside intended use in a dangerous manner. Thanks