AAR - Frank Proctor Rifle/Pistol Class - July 2017 - Mount Carrol, IL

[Sal Picante]

If only there was a website that operated as a one-stop shop for finding good instructors and classes around the country. (Even if it is a work in progress. )

Well - a buddy of mine rolled this a while ago: https://www.ratemyshootinginstructor.com

It is a good idea, at first, however, I think that there are issue here too. For example, Frank is rated/listed on here and the reviews are all 5-star, glowing.
https://www.ratemyshootinginstructor...frank-proctor/

I think the trouble is really the level that the reviewer has... That's a bummer to me.

[Sal Picante]

I take a lot of classes and write reviews for my blog, which I always link to here. Mine tend to be positive because I do my homework (not saying you don't, Les). I've read a few too many negative or partial negative reviews of Proctor's classes to take a chance on one. They sound great if you like a lot of Ricky Bobby references, but having never seen that movie, I don't see the point. I've read of huge classes, of him sort of mumbling/low-talking his way through some of the discussions, and a lot of "guided" practice that sounds
a lot like unguided practice. Definitely not what I'm looking for.

It seemed like a mixed bag, but, I was hoping to pick up a few nuggets...

[EricM]

Talking to Frank about some of his beliefs on vision/processing speed/etc. was fascinating, but the discussions were exceedingly short because he had to managed the rest of the class.

Thanks for the review. I'm curious if you could share any more details on the vision side. I watched Frank's pistol video a while back, and one of the things he said was, "Rear sight, front sight, target...all of them with the same type of focus. Not a blurry rear sight, and a blurry target, and a clear front sight. But completely clear focus on all three things. ... We're capable of seeing all three of those on the same focal plane with the same amount of clarity." Wait, what? I understand his comments about a focal shift taking time and not always being necessary, but the particular section I quoted just didn't make sense to me. Any chance he discussed anything along those lines?

[Sal Picante]

Thanks for the review. I'm curious if you could share any more details on the vision side. I watched Frank's pistol video a while back, and one of the things he said was, "Rear sight, front sight, target...all of them with the same type of focus. Not a blurry rear sight, and a blurry target, and a clear front sight. But completely clear focus on all three things. ... We're capable of seeing all three of those on the same focal plane with the same amount of clarity." Wait, what? I understand his comments about a focal shift taking time and not always being necessary, but the particular section I quoted just didn't make sense to me. Any chance he discussed anything along those lines?

I think the words fail him... It is more about "seeing the whole picture" than any one things. It is the "whole picture" that is clear (and by clear, I think he means "making sense to your brain") rather than any one particular point.

[RJ]

Les - Thanks for the review.

Your comments on the unstructured nature of the class and lack of accountability of shots echo my AAR from Frank's 1 Day Pistol Class in April:

https://pistol-forum.com/showthread....TX-21-Apr-2017

As you are a GM, it's nice to see you take classes and provide feedback. I think it's very valuable to critically assess training and offer accurate summaries for those of us still at the Training Wheel stage of shooting.

Thanks again.

[Sal Picante]

As you are a GM, it's nice to see you take classes and provide feedback.

I make it a point to take at least 1 class a year. There is a lot to learn out there and no one person knows it all, has all the answers, etc.

Shooting, just like anything in life, is very much a process...

[cpd2110]

I took a pistol class from Frank in 2015 near Pittsburgh. This was when Alias still existed and I won't go into that mess but there were lots of students and not much individual attention. I did pick up some things though that I have used in teaching people at our agency. One of the biggest things I took away was actually from a student. Frank was talking about focal shifts and I think getting lots of blank responses. A student said something like do you mean eye sprints, from target to sights etc. For me the term eye sprint really took hold and actually helped my shooting improve. I'm sure for many on this forum they already do this but as I watch a shooter, especially during speed drills I will run my eyes from the shooter, their gun and the intended target. I do this at home as well and my ability to run my eyes to the target first with my muzzle just behind has improved tremendously.

Frank was a good dude, he can teach, but I did find his jokes distracting. When you watch youtube videos you think oh he is just doing that for the camera, nope, its all day with the jokes, ricky bobby and all other sorts of references. I also had a severe case of tendonitis by day 2. At the time we were shooting 40cal and I hadn't shot as much as we did with Frank in a while. I was messed up for several months until I found Mr. Whites theraband bars which solved the issue. I will say that the reps did help on day 1 with letting his concepts sink in a bit. Day 2 was just me getting through the pain and not doing the same amount of reps as day 1. If you go to a pistol class with him take a 9

[45dotACP]

I like an honest review. I had thought about taking a class with Frank, but maybe I'll save for something a little more organized or 1:1

Question, Les: Do you think at your current skill level it's less return on investment to take pistol classes?

Maybe it's an age old question, but do you think you can learn much from someone you can beat at nationals? Or was that less of a factor than things like the lack of structure?

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk

[Chance]

You're giving a polite, measured critique to a notable instructor's class?

You've been warned.

[AJZ]

This is unfortunate. Frank's class used to be very different. The first time I shot with him I don't think he was relatively well known. There were only six of us in the class and most were very competent shooters (Mick Houston, Pat Doyle, myself, and a couple others). Lots of one on one, video diagnostics, explanation, etc. Sorry to see where it is at right now.