Tom's data set would indicate they likely are not, but you could likely use the same argument for night sights.Originally Posted by breakingtime91
Outside of on-duty law enforcement, I see a place for a WML on my home defense guns, but not on the ones I carry concealed. I don't think there is a "right" answer, only a "right for me" answer.
Same here. (Though I have a JMCK holster for the G17 with WML should the occasion arise.)
There's nothing civil about this war.
My data also shows zero incidents of WML, or an incident where it mattered, in a defensive use.
I'm honestly rethinking my standing on if night sights are needed or not. If you'd have asked me a few years ago I'd have said they are a must have. Now I'm not sure.
That said, I'd point out night sights and a WML have different uses.
Last edited by BehindBlueI's; 08-05-2017 at 03:26 PM.
I just don't understand how the utility of the WML ends at the front door? Obviously not saying your implying that but if people use them at home but then don't think they are needed on the street, what is the difference? I guess I just don't understand the difference between fighting outside the home and in it.
I'm sure you could come up with some scenario where a WML will be useful. You're in a theater when an active shooter disables the power and then starts his rampage or something. That kind of goes back to you can't be prepared for EVERY scenario, just more and more scenarios.
Off the top of my head, the 2 biggest differences would be:
1) Ambient light and the need for target identification. A robber demanding your wallet on the street is not going to be your daughter sneaking in from her date once the lights come on. The burglar might be. (on a side note, I'd encourage setting up your house with a low level of ambient light at night so you aren't as reliant on a flashlight)
2) Potential distances are greater in a home invasion, and you are more likely to be able to ambush your target without them knowing exactly where you are. Nobody robs you from 22y away, but with the floor plan of my house that's the longest likely distance I'd have to engage from (where I'm sitting right now in the sun room to the front door). Since my target doesn't know where in the house I am, and with the distance a light would be more disorienting for longer. On the street, he knows where I am and can probably find me my Braille pretty quickly. The disorientation is going to come from the report of the gunshot, injury, etc.
My off duty gun doesn't have a WML on it for the reasons above (although I do carry a flashlight for the "off chance" scenarios listed above). With a front night sight and a handheld I feel pretty good about making the shots I'd need to make in a SD situation. Eventually WML tech will catch up and give us a micro solution for EDC but I'm not aware of any that I like enough to adopt yet...
I've seen this scenario mentioned before, and while I've never been in the situation, it does make me wonder...
If a guy is shooting up a theater filled with a couple hundred people, what would make him focus his shots on me, rather than some of the other 199 people that are running for the exits or hiding behind the seats or on the floor? Possibly a big bright flashlight in my hand? I don't know. I'm not LE, I'm ducking for cover and/or running.
Just a data point from Tucker Gun Leather's FAQ page
http://www.tuckergunleather.com/faq/
I'll admit, I do tend to "cherry pick" the experts that agree with my biases. I'm in the non-night sight, non-weapon mounted light niche, but as I mentioned, I'm not LE, and I spend very little time out in the dark, and none of it is spent chasing bad guys.Q. Does Tucker recommend carrying a defensive pistol with a light attached to an accessory rail?
A. Tucker says, "If you're on a SWAT team, go for it. If not, your pistol is a quick-response tool for a sudden and extreme self-defense situation. If you have a light on the gun, you may find it distracting enough to slow dowin your response."
I had a very salty instructor at my 1st academy say something that always stuck with me after he observed a few runs of cadets clearing a dark room with flashlights (some of them missing the person hiding inside). "Let there be light" as he came through the door he switched on the room light...the person was instantly visible. Not really exactly what we're talking about here but it is applicable. In a defensive situation a light may not always be the best answer, true. But, once you are on the offensive or actively hunting...if you can't see it, you can't process it. The quicker I can PID something the quicker I can make a UoF decision, lights help with this. I've noticed shooting in varying light conditions that my hits are better and faster when I can see (YRMV).
In the theater situation posed above, will that big bright flashlight in my hand draw fire to me (away from the other people I'm trying to defend by stepping into the fight)? Probably...yous pays your money yous takes your chances. Can I make a quick exit and not get shot rather than fight it out to defend a room full of strangers? Engaging is not the only option. Everyone will have to make that decision on their own and in the moment. But if I decide to step into it at 20-30 yards in a normal size theater (I always sit in the back) will my shots be better with or without a solid sight picture? Will that light maybe make me be able to hold off on breaking a shot because a kid is about to run through my line of fire? Just because you have a light doesn't mean you have to turn it on as soon as you draw.
A light is a great tool (just like a pistol) how, why and when you employ it will be dictated by the tactical decisions you make given your particular situation. All I'm saying is it's nice to have it as an option...(even if you're not on a SWAT team)
Last edited by TCB; 08-06-2017 at 12:45 PM.
I have to be honest that in my entire career in law enforcement with almost all of it in patrol and 17 years on nights I have never had the occasion where I could have used night sights and identified my threat or have identified my threat and needed night sights. Either the available ambient light or use of a handheld flashlight(WML were only a few years allowed at my agency before I retired in 2016) made seeing the sights possible. This is with traditional Trijicon 3 dot tritium night sights not fiber optic or high visibility designs.
I haven't used FO sights more than just a few times but have HDs on my 23 and Spaulding sights on my 19 and I can see both as well or better in the lighting I have tried them in as I can my Trijicon 3 dot night sights.
I still want to try FO sights more but for me, I think there are extremely few situations where night sights will make the difference or truly be needed. High visibility,FO or tritium all should be fine. YMMV
I think for most of us who have responded, by what I have read, it is the same thing. A WML, makes a larger concealed carry package. (not comfortable or may not even be an option on some concealed guns)
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