oh agreed, night sights offer a versatility no other sight option (besides rds) does. It is up to the individual to wager that against any perceived or real performance gains they have because a fiber optic set up.Originally Posted by LSP552
oh agreed, night sights offer a versatility no other sight option (besides rds) does. It is up to the individual to wager that against any perceived or real performance gains they have because a fiber optic set up.
Here's a couple pics I threw together just to illustrate the point more. In both scenarios, I would be able to clearly see a person standing in those lighting conditions enough to identify if they were a threat or not without needing a flashlight.
1. Standing in my garage with the overhead light off and a desk light backlighting me behind.
2. Standing in garage still, ambient light is coming in from an adjacent room where the door is cracked.
Last edited by Gio; 08-04-2017 at 09:57 PM.
I remember Todd had a post about the same scenarios Gio is talking about.
Found it: http://pistol-training.com/archives/7668
I've honestly never tried fibers, but probably will eventually just for kicks. I usually use like 3-dot tritium sights. Lately I've been trying them with the rears blacked out with a black sharpie. In darkness enough of the tritium still shines through the rears to get a reference and it's nice to have them dimmer so that the front is easier to identify.
Todd once ran a solid low-light clinic at the NRA Range. Arclight posted an AAR. Here's the cliff notes version though...conditions of dim/medium light were hardest to navigate.
AAR: Target Discrimination/Low Light Practice Session, Virginia 23 January 2011
"When the phone rang, Parker was in the garage, killing a man."
his aar makes me feel like a WML may be a great tool in conjunction with a handheld..
Sure, more options are more options - but I don't EDC a WML and neither does Arclight, though both of us have similarly equipped HD guns with lights.
"When the phone rang, Parker was in the garage, killing a man."
I am not a LEO, but have some in the family, as well as several friends on multiple forces. I have yet to see any non swat, with weapons mounted lights on their daily carries. While I do see three dot or dot the I type sights on several guns of those I know (believe one has a figure 8 sight on his weapon). The article mentioned FO sight being whacked and damaging the front sight, well how many times have you had to fight to gain/regain control of a subject? How many times have you had one that lead you into others? Running after a subject, who is trying to loose you into the woods? In any of those situations, your weapon can be clocked, just as you can. In other situations you may go from having a clear shot, but no cause, to the subject running and what do you do with your weapon and light?
What about when you have one officer going directly after a subject and another officer trying to flank them? The light could give away the flanking officers position.
I still think FO might be good for the range, but the gun I was interested in trying one on, has one set available for it that I know of, that has horrible reviews of the fiber being easily damaged and they think it is a poorly designed FO sight. I work 12's typically and end up off after dark. Night sights would be my choice for that, where a home defense gun, may very well have both night sights as well as a light, that gives me options.
I use a Sharpie as well.....I personally can't stand the bright rears giving away position.
I found it odd that people advocate night sights and their ability but when wmls come up they write it off as not needed.. strange
I've been in every situation you described and the type of sight on my pistol has never played a role. Foot pursuits in woods / heavy brush hoster up and run, I carry 2 handhelds and both my primary and secondary weapons have WMLs on them. I've switched between 3-4 different lights over a 5-10 min search, it's nice to have the right tool for evolving situations and be able to flow between them. I generally don't search with a WML on a pistol (rifle yes, a nice bright light with good spill is awsome for this), if I'm searching with a handheld and need to go to a sidearm with a WML I've come to find that the best way (only done this on a range) is to just drop the handheld (adds no time to my draw during training). A grip activated WML could mean you don't need to ditch your handheld (unfortunately my duty gun doesn't play well with them) and could make for a much smoother transition between the two. Covering down on someone with a WML on a pistol and they rabbit? Holster up and go (if they were shootable when you were punched out on them you might probably should have shot them?).
Having a f/o is awsome in the daylight, night sights have their place in low light but aren't as good in the day and as soon as a WML is used both are just black. All my guns that could potentially be pressed into "service" have WMLs on them (I'm not SWAT btw).
Your WML giving up the position of another good guy? Could be a 2nd bad guy... if you're not operating under NVD's white light is the only way to PID. I've approached subjects blacked out with NV and thermal but when you make contact it's lights on (domestic LE, .Mil is another thing and not my lane). I'll throw this in as well...running in the dark outside is super dangerous...even with a flashlight it's tough and unless you are ok with broken legs, sprained ankles or blown out knees don't sprint in the dark (ask me how I know). I did a low light class with Pat Mac and talked to him about this specifically, he had me run away from him back lot from his light, it was harder due to my shadow and the movement of the light behind me than with it off.
Working at night is a whole nother monster...I think the Triji HD front sights and the like are the best compromise for a highly visible front sight for a "working" gun, I wish they made them regular height so they could be matched to whatever rear you prefer. Im currently useing a regular trittium front w white outline and a 10-8 rear on my off duty carry and a couple of my "house" guns. A self illuminated F/O would be amazing if someone could ever crack the code to make it. The rod being damaged during a fall or fight? I still have a regular sight to work with...and a WML and a handheld. The F/O rods in my competition guns seem to hold up very well to rough handling.
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