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Thread: Carry enough gun or just carry a gun?

  1. #21
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    Wolf's 13 lib recoil spring will tame the LCP and make it function better also. Buffalo Bores +p 380 lead flat nose bullet will help get this round up off its knees. It shoots accurately and flawlessly in my two older LCP's. Yet, I would never say that it's a man stopper by any means.

    I have owed several quality .25 acps and enjoy playing with them. Currently I have a Beretta. The caliber is under powered and is in the same category as the .22 Short which I also enjoy shooting. Carrying a .25 acp is most unwise when one can carry a similar size .380. Do any old guys here remember KTW armor piercing ammo from the 50s and 60s? There was a pointed .25 acp version which would penetrate a person's head and not bounce off like the standard round. I wish I still had some.

  2. #22
    Modding this sack of shit BehindBlueI's's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KevH View Post
    I agree anyone can dress around a gun. I've dressed around fullsize Glocks and Colt Governments for years. In a perfect world everyone would dress around full size guns. The reality is that many are too lazy or vain to do so. That is the key to what I'm saying: perfect world vs reality.

    Does every person at your agency carry a full size gun on their person all the time? Most likely not. Most cops do not....
    Pffft, of course not. My partner is the absolute worst at leaving his gun in the trunk when he's off duty. I suspect what you will find, though, is those who can't be bothered to carry a Shield or larger also can't be bothered to carry a Noisy Cricket.

    Quote Originally Posted by YVK View Post
    I presume that your statement is not all inclusive and implies general everyday clothing (or is it LEO only?) because I can point out a set of specific, and perhaps not too uncommon. circumstances when you can't dress around the gun. I live those circumstances almost daily these days.
    I'm referring to "off duty" carry. Sure, if you're a stripper or a lifeguard (or a stripper life guard, which sounds awesome) it's going to be tougher to conceal while you're on the clock. I completely get that some people must wear a uniform/scrubs/go through metal detectors/etc. I'm not talking about those limits.

    I will say when I was carrying in an NPE during my few years as a civilian in the IT world, it was a full size 1911 in a Smart Carry. If anyone noticed a bulge "down there" they didn't mention it.

  3. #23
    Site Supporter Rex G's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rex G View Post
    For this petite officer, two things come to mind: Belt pouch holster, and G42. Tex Shoemaker used to make leather belt pouches, somewhat like squared-off handcuff cases, that exactly accommodated the AMT Back-Up, and would accept some other decent small pistols. The Safepacker, from The Wilderness, is nylon, and is in production, in sizes down to Colt Mustang.he Safepacker can be worn on a belt, slung by a strap, or hand-carried like a clutch purse.

    Plenty of people have posted that the G42 is a gentle-recoiling .380 pistol, much more comfortable than the various Kel-tec-ish beasties. (The similar Ruger is in this group of beasties.) For reference, I helped my wife run break-in/function-test rounds through her Kel-tec 32, during which time we both grew to hate the thing; it squirmed during the trigger stroke, shifted position during recoil, and, after a number of shots, hurt. It has sat on a shelf, unused, for years now. Thinking the P3AT's grip frame was wider, I bought one, sight unseen, when they were difficult to find, only to find it was the same size, so I sold it, unfired. Our Seecamp LWS-32 pistols are gentle, in comparison, but I m not so sure about depending upon a sightless pistol, beyond nasal-spray range, especially as it points low in my hands.

    For my use, well, a PPK/s or J-snub would be my idea of minimally OK, for sighted fire. A PPK is beyond the point of diminishing returns, being too punishing to use for training, at least when chambered for .380 ACP. It is not that .380 in a PPK kicks too hard, but that slide bite starts immediately, whereas the PPK/s bites me less, plus, the PPK/s has a larger gripping area, so remains stable during the trigger stroke, whereas the PPK wants to squirm during the DA pull.

    I have made enough shooting calls to know that .380 ACP can be quite effective, at least at close range, with face-to-face opponents. Obviously, obese or muscular opponents would likely require face shots, so anyone depending upon tiny guns.
    To finish the incomplete sentence, in my previous post: Obviously, obese or muscular opponents would likely require face shots, so anyone depending upon tiny guns, such as .380 autos, should take this into account while training.

  4. #24
    Site Supporter Hambo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KevH View Post
    Which part of it?
    The part where she carries a Shield in her purse but intentionally chose to leave it at home or in the car. The issue with her and other cops that don't carry off duty isn't what to carry, it's that they don't think they need to.
    "Gunfighting is a thinking man's game. So we might want to bring thinking back into it."-MDFA

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by BehindBlueI's View Post
    I will say when I was carrying in an NPE during my few years as a civilian in the IT world, it was a full size 1911 in a Smart Carry. If anyone noticed a bulge "down there" they didn't mention it.
    How did that work for you? While the Smart Carry is comfortable and conceals well enough, it massively increases my draw time and complexity. I'd guess draw times are triple my normal AIWB times and the potential for fouling is significantly higher. Unless I have "all the time in the world" to produce a gun, I've pretty much dismissed it as an option.
    David S.

  6. #26
    The Glock 42 suggestion for that female officer would be a wise consideration for her. I own two of them and they are the softest shooting .380 acp pistols I've ever fired. I'm not a huge fan of .380 but I stoke mine with Gold Dots and use them as BUGs to other larger calibers.

    Can't imagine her wardrobe not allowing concealment of a G42. IWB or appendix (with proper training on the drawstroke) should work well for her.

    Most of the officers I work with don't carry off duty....even though it is mandated in our SOPs (swimming and drinking are the two exceptions) that all officers will carry while in our county.

    Lots of them ignore that SOP and roll the dice when out and about.
    Last edited by lwt16; 08-01-2017 at 07:08 AM.

  7. #27
    OP, tell your petite co-worker to try a RM380 if you can find one. It is almost the same size as the LCP, but far more pleasurable to shoot. I have over 500 trouble free rounds through mine, and have been quite pleased with it for what it is. In contrast, shooting my buddy's LCP is downright painful.


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  8. #28
    Dot Driver Kyle Reese's Avatar
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    I value my life and the lives of my loved ones enough to put the effort in to dress around a full sized service handgun and spare mags.

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  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by breakingtime91 View Post
    So question for other civilian ccw's, do you value concealment over gun size? I know I do but that may because I try to maintain a low profile and not draw attention to myself. I have a buddy, in contrast, that cares way less about printing than I do.
    Quote Originally Posted by LSP552 View Post
    I'm spending a lot of time now in some less gun friendly states like RI, MA and CT. I pay a lot more attention to not printing that I do when I'm back in LA. For me, the length of the butt difference between a G26 and G19/17 can matter depending on how you dress.
    This is especially important for me. I live in MA (lucky me). I also work in a NPE. Not a "I'll get fired" but a "I'll go to jail" type NPE. So I can't carry at work but if I want to carry going to/coming from work or while running errands at lunch (which I do often), I'm limited by my attire. My office is a business casual office (no ties/no jackets - it's slacks and button down or polo). I could throw a sport coat or something on to cover a larger size pistol but then I'm dealing with taking holsters on or off. Looking at my threat level and situation I've made the decision to favor concealment vs gun size. Now after hours and on the weekend, I do try to carry a more appropriate sized pistol.

    But 85% of the time, it's a pocket pistol. Unfortunately due to some hand issues I can't handle a j-frame so it's a S&W Bodyguard in .380ACP. For now...

  10. #30
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    The officer needs a gun. If it's a .32, then better than nothing. An officer who runs into a bad guy they know and knows them can't just turn off being a cop. The bad guy gets to chose.

    We say things like, "bullets aren't instant killers" and then go on to have a plan (or lack of one) that shows that we think they are.

    Dress around the gun, buy a smaller gun, buy a thinner gun, whatever. Everyone needs a plan for when the gun goes click and when the slide locks back.

    I think the problem with most people is that they just don't want to carry a gun. Which of course is their choice. Who the heck am I to tell them otherwise.
    What you do right before you know you're going to be in a use of force incident, often determines the outcome of that use of force.

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