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Thread: Carry enough gun or just carry a gun?

  1. #141
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    Regarding .22 v. .25, the point about picking the right ammo is a good one. I have watched .25 ammo penetrate a wooden target frame about 3/16 inch, and then drop to the ground undamaged. A .22 from my North American Arms mini revolver will bury itself completely in the same wood, from essentially the same barrel length (rifled portion only). This observation, as well as the relative cost of practice ammo, has caused me to prefer the .22.

    A Kel-Tec P-32 provides a more potent option than either with comfortable recoil, but some individual circumstances will call for a .22. This is what prompted Claude Werner's "old man gun" concept.



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  2. #142
    Quote Originally Posted by Chuck Haggard View Post
    I'm noting a lot of dudes in this thread, and more than a few I know to be full sized dudes, and a dearth of ladies posting.

    Many chicks, I'll include my oldest daughter and a cop friend in the KCMO area, like to dress like chicks and not little dudes wearing the 5.11 catalog. I get it. Many dudes working in a true NPE while wearing business clothes will find themselves in a similar situation as far as gun size vs concealing the gun. Craig's TPI site has an epic thread on this subject, with worthy comments from folks like Claude Werner and some of the ladies on that forum.

    Anyway, both my daughter and friend ended up with LCP sized guns backed up by small folders. Cop chick friend uses her FlashBang bra holster almost daily while off duty. She is not a top heavy gal and yet the gun is still undetectable. A P32 would serve the same purpose and have less recoil.

    Personally, I'd prefer a good person have a .22 or .25 and some smarts than just smarts.

    Ref ".25acp ammo": in my observation it depends on the ammo. I've crono'd .25acp from a Beretta at anywhere from the low 600fps range to the high 900fps range. That makes a substantial difference IMHO. I've seen some of the ".25 don't work" cases on the street, but I've seen more than a few where it did work, shockingly well. I recall one case where a head shot was a through-and-through, another where a cross torso below the diaphragm hit killed dude dead very quickly.

    In screwing around at the range and shooting the brand new 55gal steel drum that was going to be used for a burn barrel, I noted the slow .25 rounds would bounce off the side and hit me in the shins, the fast .25 rounds, and .22s such as the Stinger or Velocity from a snubby, would punch both sides of the drum. That's not Doc Roberts level of testing, but methinks that level of performance will make a difference when you have to shoot a bad guy in the head.
    Chuck, what brands/loads of 25acp were the high velocity rounds that penetrated both sides of the burn barrel?

  3. #143
    Quote Originally Posted by Mike C View Post
    Or... kid who shot mom from gun in her purse, (happened not too long ago as I recall).
    Or the off-duty police officer who had her purse containing her gun and badge stolen.

    http://www.sun-sentinel.com/local/mi...605-story.html

  4. #144
    Site Supporter Maple Syrup Actual's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chuck Haggard View Post
    I'm noting a lot of dudes in this thread, and more than a few I know to be full sized dudes, and a dearth of ladies posting.

    Many chicks, I'll include my oldest daughter and a cop friend in the KCMO area, like to dress like chicks and not little dudes wearing the 5.11 catalog. I get it. Many dudes working in a true NPE while wearing business clothes will find themselves in a similar situation as far as gun size vs concealing the gun. Craig's TPI site has an epic thread on this subject, with worthy comments from folks like Claude Werner and some of the ladies on that forum.

    Anyway, both my daughter and friend ended up with LCP sized guns backed up by small folders. Cop chick friend uses her FlashBang bra holster almost daily while off duty. She is not a top heavy gal and yet the gun is still undetectable. A P32 would serve the same purpose and have less recoil.

    Personally, I'd prefer a good person have a .22 or .25 and some smarts than just smarts.

    Ref ".25acp ammo": in my observation it depends on the ammo. I've crono'd .25acp from a Beretta at anywhere from the low 600fps range to the high 900fps range. That makes a substantial difference IMHO. I've seen some of the ".25 don't work" cases on the street, but I've seen more than a few where it did work, shockingly well. I recall one case where a head shot was a through-and-through, another where a cross torso below the diaphragm hit killed dude dead very quickly.

    In screwing around at the range and shooting the brand new 55gal steel drum that was going to be used for a burn barrel, I noted the slow .25 rounds would bounce off the side and hit me in the shins, the fast .25 rounds, and .22s such as the Stinger or Velocity from a snubby, would punch both sides of the drum. That's not Doc Roberts level of testing, but methinks that level of performance will make a difference when you have to shoot a bad guy in the head.
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