Carry enough gun or just carry a gun?

[BillSWPA]

Just an anecdote, today we had a petite young woman who couldn't be more than 5' 3" and 100 lbs, shooting a Glock 19 just fine and competitive with us old farts. Now carrying it would be a different issue but as far a shooting it - no sweat.

Most ladies I have seen have no trouble with a G19 or G26 unless there is some unusual sensitivity or medical issue. Spoke with a knowledgeable lady behind the counter at Dicks who likes her G43. I have seen one do some really nice shooting with a G42. Some of the truly tiny .380 and 9mm pistols, however, will be too much. A choice between going up in size or down in caliber ends up becoming necessary.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[DocGKR]

"No. But the psychology does."

Agreed, but how does that alter the terminal performance requirements for an effective projectile?

[BehindBlueI's]

Agreed, but how does that alter the terminal performance requirements for an effective projectile?

Well, I touched on it in these posts:

For random targeting like a street mugging, probably. At least 1/3 of those encounters could be won with a starter pistol, as misses have caused the bad guy to flee or surrender. Another significant chunk could be won by an airsoft, as the mere sight of the draw or presentation causes the bad guy to flee or surrender (mostly flee). If you've got a gun you can smoothly, quickly, and consistently present and fire you're equipped for the majority of situations (and of course you can never be prepared for every situation, just cover more and more possibilities).

Targeted starts to look more like LEO, the stakes are higher and the bad guy's dedication is higher. It's tougher to get a psychological stop because of that. Distances are greater, number of rounds exchanged is higher, etc. The gun starts to matter more more often, so to speak.

No handgun is sufficient for every possible situation.
The list of likely situations varies depending on individual threat level.
A less capable gun can cover almost all likely scenarios for someone with a low threat level. If random street crime is your most likely threat, concerns of distance, level of dedication of the attacker, number of rounds fired, the need to overcome intermediate barriers, etc. is much less than the likely scenarios of an LEO. They are also different than someone who is likely to be targeted specifically.

I would always encourage you to carry the most handgun you can, regardless of who you are. However I do recognize that "less" gun will still cover the vast majority of threats for the vast majority of people. When you are an LEO, when you have death threats from your crazy ex-, when you routinely deal with large cash deposits and people know about it, those sorts of things mean you're no longer in the pool of "vast majority of people" and your needs change.

The direct answer would be because the psychology of the assaulter during that particular circumstance will wildly change how relevant terminal performance is to a safe ending. A criminal who engages in panicked flight from a miss is just as much an ended threat to the individual (but not the community) as the dead one. That's the slightly more fleshed out version of the first post. I already hear the objection we shouldn't count on a psychological stop, and I agree, but we also can't count on a physical stop. As I'm sure you are aware, even most physical stops other than CNS hits are psychological stops first. A few folks continue to fight with a bullet through their heart, but not many, and not in many circumstances. To ignore the psychological stop is to ignore a pretty large chunk of gunfights and shootings in the real world. Which moves me to flesh out the second post a bit.

The murderous ex-husband in a jealous rage bent on murder-suicide is not nearly as likely to be psychologically stopped as the street robber who can simply pick a safer target to rob later in the same night. When someone attacks an LEO for being an LEO or who is cornered and trying to murder a LEO to enable a escape, it's much closer to that murderous ex-husband mentality than the random street robber mentality, even if it's the exact same person. There is emotion to the attack on LE, there is anger and/or hatred, they can "other" the cop easier because cops are the physical representation of "the man" who's to blame for all their ills, who's there to take their freedom and put them back in prison, the personification of the unjust society. The guy at the bus stop with an expensive cell phone in his hand is just an ATM, and he can hit the next one just as easily if this one is too dangerous. Two different ends of the spectrum, different levels of dedication to the assault, two different reactions to potential injury or real injury, two different outlooks on continued survival, etc.

[DocGKR]

Agree fully on all the psychological aspects. My concern with selecting a less capable system is when the projectiles actually do have to hit the criminal predator's tissue and must work acceptably in order to successfully defend the lives of good folks.

[BehindBlueI's]

Agree fully on all the psychological aspects. My concern with selecting a less capable system is when the projectiles actually do have to hit the criminal predator's tissue and must work acceptably in order to successfully defend the lives of good folks.

Sure, we're on the same page and I covered that with the second quote above. "No handgun is sufficient for every possible situation.
The list of likely situations varies depending on individual threat level...I would always encourage you to carry the most handgun you can, regardless of who you are."

I don't carry anything smaller than a .38, personally, and that's my in-the-house-in-pajamas gun. Outside, 9mm is the smallest primary I go.

[Cypher]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=C5Doudy4WZY

Tatiana Whitlock is able to conceal in what looks like a pretty tight outfit

[Cypher]

I'm reading through this and I'm getting a couple of things out of it.

I'm not adding anything new but the first thing that comes to mind is that you either have a self defense mindset or you don't. Those people who can't understand why you think you need to carry a gun at all? They don't have a self defense mindset.

There's a woman in my church who has been talking about getting her concealed permit for a year but she likes to dress in skin tight jeans and tank tops more than she wants to carry a gun. Until something happens to make her change her worldview showing her ass is going to be more important to her than defending it.

I think your friend is in a similar place. If the run in she had wasn't enough to get her to rethink her fashion choices nothing you say is going to either.

I was going to say the second thing was that I take self defense seriously enough to that I do carry a handgun in a defensive caliber but that's still mindset.

I was also going to say that if I became a cop I would understand that it would entail some changes to my life but that's still mindset.

I can't come up with a hardware solution to a software problem. Either you really think the threat level necessitates making accommodations to carry an appropriate gun or you don't

[s0nspark]

Either you really think the threat level necessitates making accommodations to carry an appropriate gun or you don't

Even among those with the mindset to carry, one issue that comes up is complacency.

Day after day,you strap on that bigger gun with no call to use it and, before long, you start considering that maybe you don't need to carry that much gun after all... or at all. :-/

It amazes me that so many gun people don't even carry.

[Glenn E. Meyer]

A CHL instructor in TX quite a few years agos, said that the instructor organization did an informal survey and found 80% of CHLs didn't carry. They wanted the license to reduce hassles over the 'truck or car' gun. A useless concept if you aint' in the vehicle. I have quite few typical friends who don't carry and won't train but prattle on about guns and ammo and stopping power and .... blah, blah.

On another forum, the view of carrying a full sized or even reasonable compact gun (G26) was that it wasn't a good idea because:

1. If you can't do the job with one or two shots, you ain't doing your job and shouldn't be carrying a gun
2. If it is a true SHTF critical incident or one with multiple opponents, I'm incompetent and will die (usually described as if you are attacked by ninjas), so why carry more than the small gun you wave at the opponent and hope they run away. We know that BGs can't shoot and will always flee at the sight of Bermuda Shorts Big Belly and his Taurus 85.

Some truth - I sometimes do go out with a J frame and a speed loader due to dress or sloth. But then I feel guilty about it. At least, I've trained and practiced with them.

[LSP552]

It amazes me that so many gun people don't even carry.

It has always amazed me that half of cops don't carry off duty, and that's probably a generous figure.