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Thread: Carry enough gun or just carry a gun?

  1. #111
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    In considering smaller guns, the ladies need particular consideration. While I am not a fan of automatically assuming that a small gun is an appropriate lady's gun (many ladies have been done quite a disservice through this thinking), they do face significantly more difficult concealment hurdles than men. Additionally, they will typically be more fashion conscious, wear more revealing or form fitting clothing, will hug and touch each other more frequently than men, have a wider variety of curvier shapes than men, and will be more conscious of what Claude Werner calls the "social NPE" - or a place where they are legally allowed to carry a gun, but choose not to do so for fear of being ostracized if the gun is discovered.

    For many women (Claude has stated 999 out of 1,000), dressing around a gun is simply not an option. They would not only refuse to do it themselves, but they hate the way men dress when we dress around a gun. My wife doesn't mind my untucked shirts on the weekend, but she definitely prefers the way I look with a tucked in shirt.

    Adding to these concealment difficulties, a typical women has about 2/3 of the strength of a typical man. This breaks down into about 80% of the typical lower body strength, and 405 of the typical upper body strength. Their elbows are not perfectly straight when they straighten their arms, leading to a greater propensity for elbow discomfort while shooting. In my experience, about 40% of the women I have either taken shooting for the first time, or worked with on the shooting portion of an NRA Basic Pistol class, will have difficulty with a trigger pull weight of 9 lb. or more, something to consider with all of the recent discussion of striker fired verses traditional double action.

    As larger calibers are made to work in smaller guns, recoil also becomes an issue. While I will not go as far as to say that accuracy is the only component of stopping power, I will call it the single most significant factor. I would rather see someone carry a lower caliber gun that they can shoot well than a pocket rocket that they are afraid to shoot and don't practice with.

    The difficulties faced by women has resulted in some ridiculous holster solutions which often fail to provide the needed access to the gun under pressure testing.

    Purse carry actually does surprisingly well under pressure testing. However, we have all read about incidents of a child gaining access to the gun when the purse owner's back was turned for "just a minute." Adding the weight of a substantial gun to an already substantial purse can be uncomfortable. Purses are of course the obvious target of a robbery attempt.

    Of course I would prefer the women in my life carrying a Glock 19 or 26 as often as possible. I would also much rather see them carrying a G42, Ruger LCP, Kel-Tec P3AT, or Kel-Tec P-32 than nothing. I have seen some really nice shooting from a femalw shooter who had previous handgun experience, but was shooting a G42 for the first time. Even so, she was beginning to fatigue towards the end of 50 rounds.

    These additional difficulties should be given due consideration before any lady is called lazy for carrying a smaller gun.
    Last edited by BillSWPA; 08-17-2017 at 07:13 PM.

  2. #112
    THE THIRST MUTILATOR Nephrology's Avatar
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    I find myself often carrying an M&P Shield 9mm and think it is a perfectly adequate firearm for 95% of the scenarios in which I would need to use a firearm in public. However, this is only in environments in which I am concerned about the social consequences of "being made." Everywhere else I carry a Gock 26 w/ 12rd mag or bigger.

  3. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nephrology View Post
    I find myself often carrying an M&P Shield 9mm and think it is a perfectly adequate firearm for 95% of the scenarios in which I would need to use a firearm in public. However, this is only in environments in which I am concerned about the social consequences of "being made." Everywhere else I carry a Gock 26 w/ 12rd mag or bigger.
    I have adopted a G26 lifestyle for the most part. It's easily concealable in most cases and shoots well above its size. I'm spending a fair amount of time in 10 mag states now, and is easy to switch from the factory 12 round in the gun and 15 Rd reload to a couple of 10 rounders as needed. The G26 is the smallest pistol I'd actually be comfortable starting a fight with.

  4. #114
    The R in F.A.R.T RevolverRob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by breakingtime91 View Post
    So question for other civilian ccw's, do you value concealment over gun size?.
    Almost always. I'd say 90% of the time I value concealment over the size of the gun. I have a pretty wide and varied wardrobe that allows me to tailor a style to my gun 90% of the time, as well. But if given the choice between concealing a small gun versus a big gun and potentially being made? Concealment wins.

    Quote Originally Posted by misanthropist View Post
    My ability to carry a gun is significantly limited here, so my perspective is fairly skewed.

    That said, I've often found it easier to chew up people in ECQC with a knife than a pistol. Gun comes out, people frantically work to keep it off their body and the slide doesn't always cycle.

    Knife comes out, they generally don't know, and I've put it in them something like 80 times before anybody reacted.

    My only frame of reference for shooting and stabbing people is training environments, though.
    This is actually one of my thoughts...Close-up entangled fighting is different than fighting terrorists (I suppose). Within arm's reach of someone my order of weapons goes like this:

    Sap
    Blackjack
    Knife
    Gun

    But it terms of gun size...I admit, I've never seen someone get pistol whipped with a steel revolver of a 1911, that didn't know they had been pistol whipped...

    ___

    Carry enough gun or just carry? For an LEO the answer is - Carry Enough Gun, because you have a badge and therefore a "pass" to go virtually everywhere armed.

    For the average citizen it is "just carry". With the caveat that you should try to carry enough gun, but if you have to go small...you better make up for it by using it well...

    I hope that I don't have to engage terrorists with a .22 Beretta Bobcat...but hey if I do? I do. I never choose to carry something I can't hit with and I absolutely never carry anything that hasn't been 100% reliable. And yes, terminal ballistics matter, shot placement is 60-70% of the equation, ballistics is 20-30%, and the remaining 10% is pretty much random. If you have a say in solving 90% of your problem from the beginning and choose not to? That's dumb.

    ___

    I will note too, that there are differences between "enough gun" and "gun" for folks with handicaps/injuries. I have carpal tunnel in both wrists that has a tendency to flair up simultaneously (since it's from typing too damn much). And when it does flair, I literally cannot pickup a full size handgun let alone shoot it. So, I have to switch to something I can shoot...which is a smaller caliber, smaller, handgun in general...

  5. #115
    Site Supporter Maple Syrup Actual's Avatar
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    There's also the fact that being a uniformed officer will tend to make you a target, and in general I would expect that you would be targeted by more committed individuals. So more gun might be more warranted?

    On the other hand, your odds of having backup are higher, so maybe there isn't much of a difference.

    Of course, I get to choose where I go every day. Nobody picks the most high crime areas and sends me there to go screw around with criminals.

    Sent from my SM-N900W8 using Tapatalk
    This is a thread where I built a boat I designed and which I very occasionally update with accounts of using it, which is really fun as long as I'm not driving over logs and blowing up the outboard.
    https://pistol-forum.com/showthread....ilding-a-skiff

  6. #116
    The R in F.A.R.T RevolverRob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by misanthropist View Post
    Nobody picks the most high crime areas and sends me there to go screw around with criminals.
    Who needs to pick for you, when we know you're quite capable of making bad decisions on your own?

  7. #117
    Site Supporter Maple Syrup Actual's Avatar
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    No, I was actually going to say...not that that's not what I choose, or anything, but I don't HAVE to choose that. I can quit any time I want.

    Sent from my SM-N900W8 using Tapatalk
    This is a thread where I built a boat I designed and which I very occasionally update with accounts of using it, which is really fun as long as I'm not driving over logs and blowing up the outboard.
    https://pistol-forum.com/showthread....ilding-a-skiff

  8. #118
    Site Supporter DocGKR's Avatar
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    I am confused, does the anatomy and physiology of an felonious attacker change when they are confronted by Police vs. when civilians are defending against their predations?
    Facts matter...Feelings Can Lie

  9. #119
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    Just an anecdote, today we had a petite young woman who couldn't be more than 5' 3" and 100 lbs, shooting a Glock 19 just fine and competitive with us old farts. Now carrying it would be a different issue but as far a shooting it - no sweat.

  10. #120
    Modding this sack of shit BehindBlueI's's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DocGKR View Post
    I am confused, does the anatomy and physiology of an felonious attacker change when they are confronted by Police vs. when civilians are defending against their predations?
    No. But the psychology does.

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