Page 1 of 15 12311 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 144

Thread: Carry enough gun or just carry a gun?

  1. #1
    Member KevH's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Contra Costa County, CA

    Carry enough gun or just carry a gun?

    As gun “aficionados” I think we tend to sometimes overthink our carry choices or at least look down upon those that make “lesser” decisions when it comes to what gun a person decides to carry on daily basis. Terms like “mouse gun” as well as “ineffective” and “weak” get thrown around. Some things got me thinking…

    I’ve had the ability due to my work to see all sorts of people shot, stabbed, and bludgeoned with all sorts of different things in all sorts of manners in the past fifteen plus years. I’ve seen it real time, right after, and when they’re being cut up on the medical examiner’s table later on. What I’ve learned is that thanks to Hollywood, gel tests, the internet, and books we have very unrealistic expectations of what bullets, knives, and fists do and don’t do.

    I’ve seen guys take multiple 7.62x39mm rounds in the torso and walk around fairly unaffected, one-shot stops with 22 LR from a pistol at distance, a guy who shot himself in the head with a 38 Special and then was able to tell me why he did it for 20 minutes before he died, and a guy that was stabbed nine times in the back with a Ka-Bar (and I’m talking deep stab wounds) walk himself into the hospital and completely recover. I won’t bore you with more, but if I counted I’m well into the hundreds of people shot/stabbed/bludgeoned/run over and the one thing that holds true for each one is that each one is completely unique. You cannot predict what force upon the human body (or animal) will do in the real world with all the different variables that may or may not be present, you can only do your best to control the variables you can.

    I’ve carried lots of different guns concealed over the years. When I was a freshly minted policeman right out of the academy I would never consider leaving the house without a Glock 22 or at least a Glock 27 and extra mag at bare minimum. Somehow that changed as time went on to a S&W 442 in a pocket or ankle rig with a speed strip or two. Priorities change, as does fashion, our bodies, and for whatever reason sometimes as we age we get lazier with what we carry or at least we reprioritize. Where we go and what we “plan” on encountering sometimes affects what we carry, but the rule of thumb is at a bare minimum you should have some type of firearm if you legally can.

    I’ve seen recently the argument on here that you need enough gun to take on multiple suspects such as during a terrorist attacks. Personally, if I could, I would have a rifle or shotgun on my person at all times, but the reality is that I cannot logistically do that. Yes, I know the quips from Jeff Cooper and Clint Smith about caliber and size, but realistically most people don’t wear 5.11 pants everywhere they go and dress around the gun they carry all the time. We often find ourselves at formal functions, our kids’ games, the neighbor’s house for an evening beer, out mowing the lawn, and a myriad of other places where carrying around larger guns becomes difficult. Many people just leave the Glock 19 or (insert other pistol here) home “for just this one time” and go unstrapped.

    I bring all this up because of a rookie female cop I think of as a little sister. She’s small, I mean a very tiny girl, and bought a S&W Shield as her “off-duty” gun (she carries an M&P in uniform). Not a bad choice. But she is so small (5’3” under 100 lbs…and of course stylishly dressed with tight jeans and shirt) that she can’t carry it on her person, so it lives in a purse (the Shield looks almost full size when she holds it). She recounted to me the other day about running into a store “really quick” when she was off-duty. No purse, so no gun. Of course, as luck would have it, a parole she had arrested a few weeks prior was in the store. The interaction went fine, but all the “what if’s” started to happen.

    I asked this young lady why she doesn’t just buy a smaller gun she can keep on her person all the time. She told me that she had tried shooting a Ruger LCP and found it to “too hard to shoot” (recoil). I suggested a 25 ACP or 32 ACP and she groaned and started to recount the “mouse gun” stories like we have all heard in the past. I then asked, “Would you have felt better with any gun than no gun?” The response was, “Well, yeah.” There you have it.

    We look down on little guns like Beretta Jetfires, Keltec P32’s and the like because there are better options. But the reality is that having an option is better than no option at all. A Baby Browning 25 ACP has proven for over a century to be extremely reliable, easy to shoot, and small enough to literally go anywhere…even on a small lady’s person. We just think less of the round it fires. Thousands upon thousands of people have died though due to that diminutive caliber, and many lives have been saved because of it. In fact, I think I may have to pick one up to let my little sister try out…

  2. #2
    I'm a big guy, so I don't have much trouble concealing anything, but this is exactly why I like having options. I carry a glock 19 where I can, but have a shield 9mm and a clip IWB holster for times where the G19 doesn't really work IWB, or times when I'm just being lazy (ie. the corner store milk run gun). I just recently bought a ruger lcp 2 for times when even the shield is too big (I have to work in tucked business attire). I don't love the .380 round, but it's better then the pepper spray it supplemented and I actually found the lcp to be a pretty shootable gun for its size.

  3. #3
    Member Zincwarrior's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2016
    Location
    Central Texas
    Good points.

    The Wife purse carries and thats bettter than no carry (it does help she carries a hand cannon and knows how to use it).

  4. #4
    I have been currently going through a struggle similar to this. For trips into areas I can carry (at work and school I can't legally so I don't) I have been really tempted to grab my shield. I really enjoy the comfort i get from my glock 19 and reload but with my son needing to be carried, crawling all over me, the glock 19 begins to become a burden and print easily with my son pulling on my shirt. The shield, in this regard, is almost perfect since it just stays invisible and is better to have than the times where a glock 19 would just become a head ache physically and mentally. Interesting thread.


    Also, parenting is hard

  5. #5
    If you are worried about terrorist attacks, have an sbr or pistol in 5.56 or 300blk with you at all times. A 12g will work for this purpose too if you pattern it with 12g slugs, RDS preferred.

    I tell people to carry whatever largest pistol they can conceal effectively with their everyday attire, preferably in 9mm. This usually means a Glock 19 for the average person.

    Pistol calibers are ineffective in stopping human adversaries, so the more bullets you have and the more accurate you are the better off you will be. With that said, I have seen people shot and killed with one .22 bullet as I have seen people shot and killed with a single .380. I have also seen people taken numerous 762x39 rounds and not only survive but survive without life-altering issues, as I have seen people take .45 rounds to the head and survive.

    More gun doesn't necessarily mean better gun or more likely to survive a deadly force confrontation, but more bullets most definitely means more time in the fight.
    VDMSR.com
    Chief Developer for V Development Group
    Everything I post I do so as a private individual who is not representing any company or organization.

  6. #6
    Site Supporter
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Sierra Nevada Mtns, CA
    The way things have rolled for me and the choices I have made. I am down to a 42 with a reload. Always have a gun. Rolling and moving and engaging two two (not a mistake) year old boys and something more than a pocket gun gets in the way.

    I've tried a bunch of appendix holsters and combinations and nothing has work like the 42 in the pocket. Hip is getting better so maybe I'll move back to the 26 in the pocket.

  7. #7
    Site Supporter Hambo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Location
    Behind the Photonic Curtain
    Quote Originally Posted by KevH View Post
    I bring all this up because of a rookie female cop I think of as a little sister. She’s small, I mean a very tiny girl, and bought a S&W Shield as her “off-duty” gun (she carries an M&P in uniform). Not a bad choice. But she is so small (5’3” under 100 lbs…and of course stylishly dressed with tight jeans and shirt) that she can’t carry it on her person, so it lives in a purse (the Shield looks almost full size when she holds it). She recounted to me the other day about running into a store “really quick” when she was off-duty. No purse, so no gun. Of course, as luck would have it, a parole she had arrested a few weeks prior was in the store. The interaction went fine, but all the “what if’s” started to happen.
    Is this a hardware or software problem?
    "Gunfighting is a thinking man's game. So we might want to bring thinking back into it."-MDFA

    Beware of my temper, and the dog that I've found...

  8. #8
    Member KevH's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Contra Costa County, CA
    Quote Originally Posted by Hambo View Post
    Is this a hardware or software problem?
    Which part of it?

  9. #9
    Member TGS's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Back in northern Virginia
    The problem is that the vast majority of people who carry sub-caliber guns because "they can't carry the *insert 9/40/45 here*" are full of shit, just lazy, and use posts like yours as an illegitimate justification to hide behind instead of owning the fact they're just lazy (hey, I have a Kahr PM9 for those days to).

    Not that there is anything logically wrong with your post, it makes complete sense and I agree with it. I think that's why there's so much criticism against the idea, however.
    Last edited by TGS; 07-31-2017 at 09:26 PM.
    "Are you ready? Okay. Let's roll."- Last words of Todd Beamer

  10. #10
    Modding this sack of shit BehindBlueI's's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Location
    Midwest
    BS you can't dress around a gun. You can choose not, but you can. If your particular style is more important to you than carrying a gun, especially as an LEO, especially as an LEO with a physical disadvantage in terms of size and strength vs most of your mopes, then the best answer isn't taking a .25 into a gun fight, it's modifying how you dress or what you carry enough to actually carry a gun.

    Yup, I've seen the guys with 7.62 wounds walking around. I've seen the .22 shot guy DRT. Not even close to the same percentages, though. We get roughly 130 murders a year through our office, about 4-5 times as many non-fatals. I say this just to say I've got a touch of experience with shot people as well. There's literally no way in fuck I would carry a .25 or advise anyone else to. Especially cops. The fact you're a cop means you can be targeted for work reasons, and that doesn't end when you log off for the day. I've had death threats over job related issues at least three times, once with a bounty. Intel wanted to put a pole cam in front of my house on the last one. We've had an officer's house shot up and an officer's house hit with a Molotov. If it's not happening where you live today, it's coming.

    I can't for the life of me grasp LEOs walking around in their own area where they can be recognized by people they've arrested, family members, etc. unarmed or with a mouse gun. If you're just concerned with random violence, the person who's more interested in surviving to get the next guy's wallet and will bounce when you present a threat, then you're mouse gun is probably better than no gun. Targeted violence where they are emotionally invested in killing you? Then it's time to carry more gun.

User Tag List

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •