Predator/Criminal behavioral indicators in public

[WDR]

I recall a trip to Seattle a few years ago. We rode the ferry from Bremerton over to Seattle in the morning, to do the tourist thing along the waterfront. Early in the morning wasn't too bad: lots of tourists, some commuters, a couple of sleepy vagrants, and one pothead rolling a joint outside the shops. No big deal. We ate lunch at Ivers and wandered our way up to Pikes Place Market. By then the three year old boy was tired, and I was carrying him around... thinking "this is a bad place to be carrying strong side, with my arms and hands mostly occupied."

Fast forward a bit, and it's pushing into afternoon. We are making our way back down to the waterfront through one of the many twisty stairwells, and we run across a lady with seven or eight purses/bags, spread out on the steps, and she's obviously higher than a kite. My discomfort level went up another notch, but the woman ignored us.

Eventually we got back to the waterfront, and headed back for the dock where the ferry was. On the way, I noticed a fellow on some high ground, overlooking the sidewalk, that had the distinct look of a predator surveying the crowds walking below. He wasn't the only one that had that look, but I distinctly remember looking right at him, and I am pretty sure he knew that I knew what he was looking for. You could really tell, as the day drug on, when the local riffraff started waking up and making their rounds. I'm not a LEO or anything, but I made a decision a long time ago to avoid being easy prey. I'm fairly certain that most of the hippies/druggies/vagrants we bumped into that day were harmless... but they all are, until they are not.

To top it all off, the 3 year old boy was playing Indian Jones between the seats on the top deck of the ferry, in shorts, and crashed and burned both knees on the non-skid deck. And all I had to patch him up was a single bandana folded in my back pocket. Lessons learned that day.

[willie]

I don't know anything about saps, but I would think that tapping the other guy with the edge would get his attention and not put him in a coma. And then there are elbows, shoulders, and nuts to be considered if push came to shove. Then too why get a big round one with too much spring when a smaller flat version might be more appropriate. I always thought that troublemakers in a community knew who would slap them and who wouldn't. I'm out of date and have no qualifications except jailhouse and prison training which now would not apply in current training plans so that I'd best be quiet before others suggest the old folks home. Can you still buy sap gloves?

[Leroy Suggs]

@willie check out Foster Impact Devices.
Saps/blackjacks are legal to carry in Florida with a CWFP. So are auto knives.

[Hemiram]

I'm a lifelong "night owl", if I'm not working, or when school was out, my normal sleep time is from around 4am-Noon, and I work nights to this day. I don't know how people can function working a "normal" schedule, two weeks of it and I'm a basket case. I don't know if it's because of my size(built like a gorilla), or there is something about me, but the lowlifes seem to avoid me, unless I'm with a woman, then something changes, it seems to gave some of the pinheads stupid ideas. My last girlfriend was more dangerous than I was, she was carrying, and knew how to mess a man up with her hands, even if she was 4'10" and 95 pounds .

Since I'm up all night, I do a lot of shopping, getting gas, eating, etc, at night. I'm 61, handicapped (A whole series of spectacularly mild looking falls after one huge one), overweight, and bald. I've been robbed once. Twice I was the victim of an attempted carjacking, and before I got hurt, many many fights, both as a bouncer/security guard and as someone who was in the wrong place at the wrong time. Almost every serious crime attempted against me was in the daytime. The robbery, and one of the carjackings were at night, but almost all the rest happened on sunny afternoons. Almost all the really big fights as a bouncer happened in the daytime. I'm always more comfortable at night, regardless of where I'm at. I've been with a lot of people over the years who have said, "This is really creepy here!", and I just laugh. Daylight is when I'm on alert, or I'm asleep. I've seen very little "action" at Wal-Mart or other 24 hour stores, other than lots of people, mostly younger ones, getting busted for shoplifting. One time, I saw a friend's youngest daughter get snatched up after stealing makeup. Most of the violence at those places has happened late in the morning, or early afternoon.

[Eurodriver]

People do not ask other people for the time or for a light when they are walking by you on the street. This doesn't normally happen and I have personally seen this used as a setup for a robbery many times. You either walk faster or get ready for a confrontation.

Thanks for your post. That was quality stuff. I have a question but I want to preface it first. I don't smoke, but I have friends that do. I have seen friends get hit up for a light by rando's. Just a few weeks ago I was in a run down area with a flat tire. I have also been out in downtowns late at night with buddies who would step out to smoke and I'd follow them to continue our chat and seen people approach to ask for a light.

I absolutely agree with you, and I know you have experience with this sort of thing, that typically people don't ask others for a light, or the time when walking by them on the street but when someone does approach you asking for the time or some such BS (which, again, is rare but it happens) how do you respond without giving off that you're ready to shoot them unnecessarily but also without letting your guard down?

[voodoo_man]

Thanks for your post. That was quality stuff. I have a question but I want to preface it first. I don't smoke, but I have friends that do. I have seen friends get hit up for a light by rando's. Just a few weeks ago I was in a run down area with a flat tire. I have also been out in downtowns late at night with buddies who would step out to smoke and I'd follow them to continue our chat and seen people approach to ask for a light.

I absolutely agree with you, and I know you have experience with this sort of thing, that typically people don't ask others for a light, or the time when walking by them on the street but when someone does approach you asking for the time or some such BS (which, again, is rare but it happens) how do you respond without giving off that you're ready to shoot them unnecessarily but also without letting your guard down?

"Sorry can't help you."

The issue is that when people do this they usually step directly into your reactionary gap. You either act right away or potentially get yourself into a sucker punch/wild west standoff.

These types of situations have happened to me numerous times, several times we were working situations where we were setting ourselves up for being robbed in a patterned area. We looked the part and one always had eyes on another. The tell-tell signs were when the person would either sneak up on you or they would walk directly up to you from the back/walk past you in the opposite direction and immediately turn around and almost always ask you for something to draw your attention and add to the sense of confusion as they hit you or put a weapon in your face.

You have to see them coming most of the time, but that may not stop the situation from occurring. If you or your friend are standing around with your back against a wall talking, some guy walks up and asks for a light, you can't walk backwards since you are already against a wall, you can side step to get behind him or to his side but that may precipitate him to act faster as you are messing with his plan or he will simply walk up into your reactionary gap saying a line but holding a weapon.

Doing this in FoF (after experiencing in real life - which I do not suggest ever doing it backwards this way) you are almost always at a disadvantage. Once they step into your reactionary gap you are going to be at a disadvantage, but that's a conversation about time, space and force.

This comes up with smokers and cell phone users who live in urban centers during training, and its always a self-inflicted issue. Don't smoke. Keep your phone in your pocket when you walk around, eye ball people when they walk directly past you and keep an eye on them if your spidey sense tingles even remotely and make sure you know where you are and the closest cover to run to after you start shooting.

[Hambo]

Saps/blackjacks are legal to carry in Florida with a CWFP.

Do you have a legal opinion stating that?

[trailrunner]

I absolutely agree with you, and I know you have experience with this sort of thing, that typically people don't ask others for a light, or the time when walking by them on the street but when someone does approach you asking for the time or some such BS (which, again, is rare but it happens) how do you respond without giving off that you're ready to shoot them unnecessarily but also without letting your guard down?

"Sorry can't help you."

The issue is that when people do this they usually step directly into your reactionary gap. You either act right away or potentially get yourself into a sucker punch/wild west standoff.

I was visiting my daughter in Georgetown (upscale area of DC) one afternoon a couple of years ago. I was walking on Water Street, which can have some less upscale people and is a couple of blocks away from the bustle of M Street, when sumdood randomly and innocently walked right up to me and asked me if I wanted to take a survey or something. I firmly said "NO" and kept walking briskly, and before he could react I was past him, out of his zone, and on my way.

A short while later I took my first John Murphy class and realized the survey dude could have potentially been setting me up. It made me feel a bit better that I had reacted instinctively. John spends a lot of time in his class reviewing surveillance videos showing how criminals act, and this part of the class is extremely valuable to those of us who don't spend a lot of time out in the streets. The gun drills he runs are great, but I think this part of the class has a sh!t-ton of benefit.

[voodoo_man]

I was visiting my daughter in Georgetown (upscale area of DC) one afternoon a couple of years ago. I was walking on Water Street, which can have some less upscale people and is a couple of blocks away from the bustle of M Street, when sumdood randomly and innocently walked right up to me and asked me if I wanted to take a survey or something. I firmly said "NO" and kept walking briskly, and before he could react I was past him, out of his zone, and on my way.

A short while later I took my first John Murphy class and realized the survey dude could have potentially been setting me up. It made me feel a bit better that I had reacted instinctively. John spends a lot of time in his class reviewing surveillance videos showing how criminals act, and this part of the class is extremely valuable to those of us who don't spend a lot of time out in the streets. The gun drills he runs are great, but I think this part of the class has a sh!t-ton of benefit.

Reactionary gap.

Once you understand how it works and how to use it in your favor you will have the upper hand in most situations. Once you understand that being first to violence and how that works with reactionary gap it becomes really clear how to win in these types of situations.

[Dagga Boy]

Reactionary gap.

Once you understand how it works and how to use it in your favor you will have the upper hand in most situations. Once you understand that being first to violence and how that works with reactionary gap it becomes really clear how to win in these types of situations.

I had a good one last night. When hard core asshole predatory felon has you alone in a highly confined, deserted concrete encased walkway with no real means of escape and turns rapidly to begin his assault......if you get a huge smile on your face and the look that says "well Mr. Hyena, you turned expecting a Gazelle and got an Old Buffalo who is already picking the spot on your face where the front sight is going to stop as the shot is getting pressed". The look of utter confusion on the young thugs face as to what to do when your victim seems utterly happy that you are going to rob him and seems to be conducting a ballistic firing solution was truely priceless.

Key to this one is that I am highly aware that my "shortcut" has some interesting geography that would make for a wonderful spot to conduct street level robbery and assault, and....not having a phone in my hand and seeing the indicators well before they happened.