Predator/Criminal behavioral indicators in public

[blues]

I had a good one last night. When hard core asshole predatory felon has you alone in a highly confined, deserted concrete encased walkway with no real means of escape and turns rapidly to begin his assault......if you get a huge smile on your face and the look that says "well Mr. Hyena, you turned expecting a Gazelle and got an Old Buffalo who is already picking the spot on your face where the front sight is going to stop as the shot is getting pressed". The look of utter confusion on the young thugs face as to what to do when your victim seems utterly happy that you are going to rob him and seems to be conducting a ballistic firing solution was truely priceless.

Key to this one is that I am highly aware that my "shortcut" has some interesting geography that would make for a wonderful spot to conduct street level robbery and assault, and....not having a phone in my hand and seeing the indicators well before they happened.

For argument's sake, DB, do you think that taking the "shortcut" knowing in advance that it is an opportune venue for an ambush do you think it worth the risk (to use it as a laboratory)? Seems to conflict with the avoid stupid places / stupid people mantra...and of course you know from personal experience that no one is invincible when it comes to addressing a threat.

This is not offered as criticism but as (hopefully) stimulus for dialog and possibly a teachable moment.

[willie]

I'm not qualified to give much advice here. Instead I'll share two experiences. Once I drove into the local bus station parking lot and parked with the intention of going inside to ship a package. A guy from my left rear appeared at my truck window and asked for $1. Of course the window was rolled up. I told him to go inside and wait for me to enter, and I would give him his dollar. He followed my instruction. I gave him a dollar. This way I avoided fumbling with a wallet on his turf; I controlled by having him go inside; and he got his $1. Had he not complied, I would have driven away and called the police. Probably he was merely a hungry bum. I'll never know.

One time I pulled into the parking lot of a seedy motel in Austin near the airport. My flight was early morning. After my wife and I exited the vehicle, a young bum from 50 yards away walked at a rapid pace toward us. I told her to hurry up and enter the office. She did. I told him in a plain, not too loud voice of authority to stop, turn around, and leave. I raised my left hand, palm up like I was a traffic cop. He left. My demeanor convinced him to reconsider. Of course I was armed. This person moved with speed and agility. I had no doubt about his intention. He saw two seniors that would be easy prey. In this case, he would not have been gifted the second wallet that I carry for surrendering if the situation is appropriate. I had no intention of allowing him to close the space between me and him.

One fact that civilians especially must always remember is that most of us are at risk of having a bad guy disarm us should a struggle begin. Instead of training, here the point is lack of training in weapon retention. Many of us are out of shape or old or infirm. All three apply to me so I must take steps to avoid a wrestling match. VooDoo man mentioned sucker punches, a favorite trick of hood persons. This trick alone is one of several reasons to maintain space. I know that predators can smell fear. Most likely they're reading body language. Once they see lack of confidence and uncertainty, they may translate this input to mean easy prey. That's my opinion.

[Dagga Boy]

For argument's sake, DB, do you think that taking the "shortcut" knowing in advance that it is an opportune venue for an ambush do you think it worth the risk (to use it as a laboratory)? Seems to conflict with the avoid stupid places / stupid people mantra...and of course you know from personal experience that no one is invincible when it comes to addressing a threat.

This is not offered as criticism but as (hopefully) stimulus for dialog and possibly a teachable moment.

My options are limited. I have to get from work to a parking structure a good walk away. Working 13.3 hour shifts, it is a zombie apocalypse of homeless and criminals both when I arrive and when I leave. A couple routes are open, but have a lot more people. Last week on the open route, I had three total shitheads walking towards me at 0545 before sun up. They were not together, but three individuals. My chances of getting past all three without at least one negative encounter would be near impossible...I crossed the street because it was an option. With my short cut, it is through an abandoned business area, so there are rarely people. The day before, the only person I saw was an armed security guard (who was an obvious retired police officer) in the exact same place as the thug who was my concern the next day. I also do not have to deal with walking by the DART station....which is like the African Watering hole with a bit of everything as far as both predators and prey. Basically, always risk, just different kinds. I am sort of forced into stupid places. In that case, high level situational awareness and planning for violence is required.

[blues]

My options are limited. I have to get from work to a parking structure a good walk away. Working 13.3 hour shifts, it is a zombie apocalypse of homeless and criminals both when I arrive and when I leave. A couple routes are open, but have a lot more people. Last week on the open route, I had three total shitheads walking towards me at 0545 before sun up. They were not together, but three individuals. My chances of getting past all three without at least one negative encounter would be near impossible...I crossed the street because it was an option. With my short cut, it is through an abandoned business area, so there are rarely people. The day before, the only person I saw was an armed security guard (who was an obvious retired police officer) in the exact same place as the thug who was my concern the next day. I also do not have to deal with walking by the DART station....which is like the African Watering hole with a bit of everything as far as both predators and prey. Basically, always risk, just different kinds. I am sort of forced into stupid places. In that case, high level situational awareness and planning for violence is required.

Thanks for that, Darryl, that makes a lot more sense to me.

(I couldn't quite figure why someone who would go to pains to avoid the hassle of dealing with NY / NJ authorities in regard to magazine limits and ammunition issues while carrying under LEOSA would willingly chance an even worse legal nightmare. I knew there had to be a legit reason.)

[Dagga Boy]

Thanks for that, Darryl, that makes a lot more sense to me.

(I couldn't quite figure why someone who would go to pains to avoid the hassle of dealing with NY / NJ authorities in regard to magazine limits and ammunition issues while carrying under LEOSA would willingly chance an even worse legal nightmare. I knew there had to be a legit reason.)

The smart thing would be to go back to being retired and fishing on the country club golf course behind the ten foot walls. But....I do like that paycheck every two weeks to go downtown and deal with crap.

[blues]

The smart thing would be to go back to being retired and fishing on the country club golf course behind the ten foot walls. But....I do like that paycheck every two weeks to go downtown and deal with crap.

I hear ya. I can't complain about my pension so I'm content to be a ne'er-do-well though I've volunteered my services to the local sheriff should he need me anytime.

When I read your reply about your options it reminded me of similar scenarios in East New York and Bushwick among other areas of Brooklyn I worked for years...and certain parts of Miami such as Overtown and Liberty City. Pick the best of the worst options.

A similar scenario to what you describe would be when I'd take my wife to Florida Panthers hockey games when they played at the Miami Arena. I'd park my G-ride at the Miami P.D. parking lot and then run the gauntlet on foot past the projects and Metrorail stations etc on the way to and from the arena. I'd have to give the missus the game plan in case we were approached by the night stalking predators since we were the only ones that looked like us walking that route.

Happily, for one reason or another, nothing bad ever came to pass...but the plans were in place.

[BehindBlueI's]

The biggest indicator is "acting natural" as opposed to being natural. When someone is out of place, when your instincts say something is off, listen.

A guy comes up and asks you for a light. That might be natural, it might be "acting natural" as a ruse to close the distance. My building is close to where arrestees are released after initial hearings. It's not uncommon for me to be asked for a light. They aren't trying to rape me or get my wallet, they really want to smoke. Sometimes, though, the asker is setting up a crime.

Does the person stop at a culturally appropriate distance? A natural request is indicated by stopping at stranger-conversation distances, continuing to close is a sign of a set up.

Does the person's physical actions match the request? A natural request will often be accompanied by holding the cigarette out slightly or miming striking a lighter. Someone play-acting will not do this.

Does the person make appropriate eye contact? You know what someone looks like when they ask a favor. They focus on you but don't glare, it's not the same focus as sizing someone up. Similarly, lack of focus on you but looking around (for witnesses, planning escape routes) means it's a set up.

People do sit in the gas station parking lot and make a cell phone call because their car is broken down. You know what a real phone conversation looks like. The person looses focus on the world around them as they concentrate on the phone conversation (which takes more mental work than an in person conversation as you have to fill in the lack of visual cues in communication). Scans of the area, if present at all, are more like a flash bulb than a light house, a quick look then back to the phone call. Conversation is two way, and even if the person isn't talking they will nod their head, gesture, etc. as we naturally do when talking. Someone play-acting so as to have an excuse to loiter will be like a light house, constantly scanning for victims. They will forget they are supposed to be having a conversation. They will lack the natural animation, pauses in the conversation (when the other person is supposed to be talking) will be abnormally long. there will be no interrupts, mmm-hmmms, and the other little tidbits we subconsciously throw out in conversation when its not our turn to talk. Someone who is play-acting is more likely a potential threat than someone actually talking..however three people walking around the parking lot all on phones are casing cars to break into or worse.

In the broadest terms, as you scan you can break people down into the following groups:
1) Behaving naturally. The vast majority of people, non-threat, no further action needed.
2) Acting naturally. Trying to imitate #1, potential threat, maybe physical, maybe a con man, but is attempting to use social norms against you in some way that is beneficial to him, not you.
3) Behaving unnaturally, mentally ill, intoxicated, etc. Potential threat and harder to predict than #1 or #2.
4) Acting unnaturally, potential set up, maybe a threat, maybe a prank, maybe someone who thinks YOU are a threat and is posturing.

and then deal with them as appropriate, which is beyond the scope of this thread.

[Lost River]

Bumping this thread up, as it was one that I just cut and pasted from plus we have a wealth of experience here that can contribute.